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The Capo
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of the Baltimorons
May 2000
time: 05:15
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As I've said before, and will continue to say. I think Ming is an *******, he's very abrasive when he does what he has to do, and sometimes favors rules over common sense, which can seem overbearing at times in a forum like this.
But although I'm totally in support of the Ozman on this one, I'm going to have to say that Ming has seen things come and go, Ming has delt with a lot of crap similar to this (and believe me, HOTW2 has been one of the biggest contributors). One can imagine that it is quite the chore enforcing the rules that he is supposed to enforce, it is his job and we shouldn't hold that against him on a personal level.
I think the problem Ozzy has here, and I share the same mindset as far as that goes, is one that would probably read like this; Civ2 - Multiplaying is my niche, this is where I post, this is the forum that I like to "be" in, I learned a genre that I enjoy (Diplogaming) in THIS forum, hard work has been put into this diplogame easily by over 30 individuals, its not that its more important its that a lot of hard work, LITERALLY, has went into this game and continues to do so, in the interest of the game (which many, if not all, of its contributors LIKE to consider a revolutionary game) I'd like to impliment a new feature which would allow more than seven people to be involved, this has also revived my interest. A poll can not be change once it has begun, therefor numerous polls are required.
I think that sums it up, I may have left a few detailed points out but that is what Ozzy is saying in general. It is difficult for him to span forums (or sites for that matter) because this game was born and bred here in the MP forums. I would be more than happy to move it to CivFanatics if I didn't share the same loyalty to Apolyton (or more specifically the MP forums) that I have, I am sure Ozzy feels the same way.
But Ozzy, this is a plea to you and in effect the entire HOTW2 crew; if Apolyton isn't going to allow us to creatively expand upon this game and through that its genre CFC has offered to accomodate us. I have spoken to them and they have told me that they would allow us to do what we must in order to persue our creative avenues, they said they welcome HOTW2 as the figurehead of diplogames (which they want to start doing regularly over there). Despite how loyal we may be to Apolyton, they are not loyal to us, therefore I suggest we make the move.
Maybe the community there isn't as established as this one is, sure, but you've gotta start somewhere. From where the Capo's sitting it looks like a good idea and it would offer HOTW2 a very nice change of pace and possibly a revitalization in our game's purpose.
Remember guys, this game isn't about the end, its about the story; The journey IS the thing!
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The Capo
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of the Baltimorons
May 2000
time: 05:15
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Its not that there isn't a whole lot going on in the MP forums, there is nothing going on.
There are other games, the HOTW2 group (Deity, Rasputin, Drake, Ozzy, Prometheus, Belinda and myself to make things clear) is enjoying this game. I know for a fact that more than half of us actually take time to think about what we put into our posts for anyone who wants to read them, I know for a fact that people DO read them, and I know for a fact that when our website was up it had amazing hits.
I am not saying our game is superior to any other game, our game is the same as any other game as far as importance, and let's face it; no game is important in the sense of the word. This is entertainment. But at the same time we put TONS of effort into this game, I post regularly and I worked for hours on the mod for this game just to make sure it was impecable. The entire group collaborated for a good MONTH on exactly how the rules would play out and where everyone would be. Pains were taken by Drake to put up a website for this game in order to offer much more in depth explainations. Our group, BY FAR, has outposted any other diplogame, and if you take out all of the spam any other game there has been.
The group has been working on ways to make diplogaming better, to make it more personal and to realize what diplogaming was created to realize. Now I know the majority of Apolytoners don't give a rat's ass about diploaming. But the community IS there, sadly the posts in the MP forums are not, therefore we are utilizing a rule (as Deity has pointed out; which is not written anywhere at all) that is very general and doesn't take into consideration a plethora of variables, for the sole purpose of protecting posts which DO NOT EXIST.
That is a very stupid thing.
The group is willing to accept the fact that we will no longer be allowed more than one "thread." But regardless, SOMETHING should change. The rule serves no purpose at all at this juncture, the rule isn't written anywhere, when I signed up for Apolyton never was I told that this rule was in effect. I read Apolyton and click its links every now and again so it can get good ratings, no I don't deserve special treatment for this, but I should at least be allowed to enjoy the forums and to enjoy the game I come here to enjoy.
Now some stupid and pointless rule is being used to help spoil this game, its a good damn game. It may not be the best played game out there, but this is one f*ckin amazing game. We are doing things that have never been done on such a scale, but its okay.
We have no problem putting our stuff elsewhere, everyone's cool with that. But regardless, something should change.
Peace.
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rah
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Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
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Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:15
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One last stir and then I'm done.
quote:
Originally posted by deity
I can't believe all this.
We don't think HOTW2 is more imporant than any other game and the subtext in the way you guys write is as though you are jeolous we have such a great and intensely enjoyable game going. I enjoy your threads. Why don't you guys get a life and be a bit more positive and encouraging about others civ games?
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Jeolous  I can't imagine a more boring way to play the game. But that's why the game is flexible. So we can all enjoy the game in our own way.
The importance that you guys are putting into the extra threads leads me to believe that you are the ones that need to "get a life".
But if I implied that you thought your game was more importance than others, I probably read more into your comments, which apparently seems to be untrue, and for that, I apologize.
On the other hand, I'm glad you guys are getting so much fun out your game. You enjoy civ your way, and I'll enjoy it my way. As long as we all enjoy the game, fine.
I have no problem with you argueing/asking for clarification of the rules here either. But when you start using terms like "blowing us off, abuse of power, overstating the importance of your game to the community, etc." Expect there to be some dissagreement/discussion.
Ok, I'm done.
RAH
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:15
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Ming accused of being a tyrant....
Rah stiring discontent...
Ozzy being pationate for his game...
Capo trying to reason with all....
Ras spamming and spelling things badly (sorry Ras, couldn't resist! )...
Actually Ras saying to take the game elsewhere...
Drake rebelling against percieved double standards...
Diety accusing people of not having lives...
Hydey mocking the players....
All this, and so much more!
now THIS is a thread!
The answer is simple, as my fellow CFC mod SunTzu said, bring the polls to Civfanatics, and keep your thread here, and everyone is happy. We don't care how many polls you put up about your game, so go for it.
I think this is your best course, not fighting with Mingy and the boys, but that is up to you guys, it's your game.
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deity
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Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:15
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I was joking War. I actually find all threads quite interesting, even the lame ones
There is not a clearly advertised code of laws for posting or a code of conduct for moderators. If there are can they please be posted. As i see it rules are made on the run and you are thrown in the slammer for breaking rules you don't know about! Interesting that the police analogy was used. It proves my point that the approach taken is one of 'policing' yet even the police have a strict set of laws to manage that are passed by parliament who are elected by the people.
I thought moderators were there to keep out porn, bad language like yours, false claims of cheating etc. Also if I was a moderator I would adopt a positive approach that nurtured the game and the enthusiasm of the players.
Ming, can you post your rules here please?
Do all moderators adhere to the same code or is there no consistency across forum?
Does Mark G know/support you standards?
Forgive me if I've got this wrong but the feeling I get is that there is a clique of players in the Ming group who are an Apolyton culture that discusses what's the go on the boards. Based on this Ming makes decisions and then acts.
It seemed he suddenly decided to increase threads from 150 posts to 1000 posts and then jumps on someone for starting a new thread after 150 posts!
Also, when did this one thread per game start?
I've never been aware of it and even if it did exist, once we got the poll device surely some flexibility can be allowed? The poll I posted was not a HOTW2 specific poll but was derived from the HOTW2 game. Ming closed it. Ming allowed ozzy's first poll vote but as soon as my broader one surfaced Ming said that he'd been nice to allow one but no more! How do I know when a moderator is being 'nice', which smacks of a grace and favour approach, or making decisions based on consistent rules??
I'll take War's advice and do more of my posting at Civ Fanatics with links here sometimes.
I know there is a strong layer of humour in all this but underneath it all I'm trying to finger a very serious issue and pose some questions.
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24-10-2001 04:13
I don't ...in fact it interupts the weekly a$$kicking i give him in civ 
perhaps one poll every two weeks per game could be allowed for diplos.... either that or we need a diplo forum.... no one wants you to really leave of course...... perhaps a thread starting a debate about a seperate civ 2 mp diplomatic forum could be established and maybe we would see an increase in these types of games.... but in a seperate forum.... it wouldn't take much to moderate...just a sign stating : Enter At Own Risk!
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