21-10-2001 16:56									#1
	Recon Air Missions Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

According to Firaxis, recon missions investigates a selected square.

Isn't that a little limited? I mean, the aircraft will fly over many squares to get to the target, wouldn't it reveal more? Besides, this thing is supposed to be in the air, so, wouldn't it have a huge line of sight?

	21-10-2001 17:17									#2
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Even at 200 miles squared per tile that is a little on the mean side. I hope spy planes are still in, they should be invaluable under this new air system for pre-bombing target recon and damage assessment. With air superiority over the target as well, air power in Civ 3 could rock.

Now all they need to add is close ground support, and we'll be set for modern warfare.

David

	21-10-2001 17:22									#3
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You're right... air combat will rock in CIV 3 (I hope)!

How would you simulate close air support in CIV 3? I mean, how could have Firaxis accomplish that?

	21-10-2001 17:25									#4
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The recon-mission must also update the latest terrain-improvements and uncover black and dimmed out squares 3-4 tiles wide, along the way. Also, I hope that one can setup an automatic reckon-path from node to node. If not, above recon-option becomes rather useless.

	21-10-2001 21:41									#5
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After like the industrial Age i almost always have discovered the whole map anyways so recon in of it self is kind of useless in my opinion. Just go and bomb the city is what i say.

	21-10-2001 21:48									#6
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I assume it, like near everything else, will be adjustable in the editor so, no worries guys

	21-10-2001 22:01									#7
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Even if you have a map of the entire world, fog of war exists.
I hope that you have an option to make a fow line visible or something so, that way you could plan your recon misions with the information of what squares your units/cities can see and what they can´t.

Another interesting question is what happens when you attemp an air recon and your target square falls into the defense range of an enemy air unit in "air superiority" mode?. Probably you have a chance of being undetected (specially stealth units).

And what about the Radar instalations that workers could build in SMAC? will they be present in Civ3?. Hope so, but can´t be so optimist after the aparent remove of the airbases.

	21-10-2001 22:13									#8
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I don't remember, were there vision ranges in Civ II? If not, think about this guys. People can see farther when on top of mountains in Civ III, so I'm sure that planes will see farther, too.

	21-10-2001 22:30									#9
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Actually they've done something I don't feel is particularly great and slightly greyed all the squares covered by the fog of war.

I hope I can turn this off, I like my colours to be vibrant so I can full appreciate the beauty and effort Firaxis have put itno these graphics, not darker shadows of them.

Also it's just my opinion, but I don't think you'd be sending a recon mission to either your or an ally controlled region or anywhere near your units, I know I wouldn't f I sent one at all, so it's a reasonably moot point.

	21-10-2001 22:36									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael I don't remember, were there vision ranges in Civ II? If not, think about this guys. People can see farther when on top of mountains in Civ III, so I'm sure that planes will see farther, too.

Oui mais ils voient avec moins de détail.

	21-10-2001 23:15									#11
	Re: Recon Air Missions Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin According to Firaxis, recon missions investigates a selected square. Isn't that a little limited? I mean, the aircraft will fly over many squares to get to the target, wouldn't it reveal more? Besides, this thing is supposed to be in the air, so, wouldn't it have a huge line of sight?

True the plane would fly over other squares to get to the square being reconnoitered. However I suspect the best way to think of it is that the plane will take pictures over the target area, thus developing more detailed information. Kind of like U2 spy plane flights over Cuba during the missle crisis. (Did you see Thirteen Days?)

I think this function is probably similar to the "Investigate City" option for Civ2, except that you can use it for any square. It makes sense that they've expanded this option from just city squares to any square, since warfare in Civ3 will focus on protecting territory (resources, trade routes, colonies etc.) as well as cities. In Civ2, it was all about cities. This new concept of defending your territory, not just your cities, is one of the things I'm looking forward to the most.

	22-10-2001 00:06									#12
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I'm going under the assumption that revealing one square actually means that it reveals the fog over 9 squares. Come on a lowly 4,000 BC warrior can clear 9 tiles of fog, but an advanced aircraft flying recon only sees 1? Something doesn't jive there. But, it's such a nit-picking point, I doubt we'll get clarification till Oct 31.

	22-10-2001 00:11									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba Actually they've done something I don't feel is particularly great and slightly greyed all the squares covered by the fog of war. I hope I can turn this off, I like my colours to be vibrant so I can full appreciate the beauty and effort Firaxis have put itno these graphics, not darker shadows of them.

Whether you like it or not, it serves a rather important function and I doubt it can be turned off.

	22-10-2001 00:13									#14
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IIRC, you could turn off the fog of war in SMAC, so I don't see why you wouldn't be able to do the same in civ3.

	22-10-2001 00:14									#15
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay37 IIRC, you could turn off the fog of war in SMAC, so I don't see why you wouldn't be able to do the same in civ3.

I haven't played SMAC in quite a while, I'll just take your word for it.

I don't like playing without FOW. After playing CtP (*shudder*), it was hard for me to go back to civ2. FOW makes it very obvious what you can see and not see. I would rather focus on my empire.

	22-10-2001 05:26									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Sabre2th Whether you like it or not, it serves a rather important function and I doubt it can be turned off.

In SMAC, this could be turned on and off. I usually would leave it the LOS fog off if I was in a state of peace, but during wartime, I had it on.

I too like the pretty colors

	23-10-2001 05:54									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba Oui mais ils voient avec moins de détail.

I'm sorry... I don't speak... not English... I'm ignorant...

What did you say???

	23-10-2001 06:20									#18
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Oui mais ils voient avec moins de détail=Yes but they see with less detail

	23-10-2001 06:29									#19
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 Oui mais ils voient avec moins de détail=Yes but they see with less detail

How do we know they see with less detail?

And until the advent of modern day satelites (which are in the game, yeah!) you can't see good detail from high so that's okay.

	23-10-2001 06:44									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba Oui mais ils voient avec moins de détail.

This I understand perfectly.

quote: Originally posted by Faboba Also it's just my opinion, but I don't think you'd be sending a recon mission to either your or an ally controlled region or anywhere near your units, I know I wouldn't f I sent one at all, so it's a reasonably moot point.

This, on the other hand, needs a translation.

	23-10-2001 07:01									#21
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I'm with you falconius, what the heck are you trying to say there

	23-10-2001 07:07									#22
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Sometims your thoughts just don't look the same when you put them down on paper... (or computer screen)

	23-10-2001 07:54									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Sometims your thoughts just don't look the same when you put them down on paper... (or computer screen)

heh.. You know, I was thinking of things- you know

Sometimes they just come out, but that's something else.

	23-10-2001 18:30									#24
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If I understand it correctly, the airplane will have a view radius like any other unit, but it will only examine in detail one selected square. So like Albie suggested, for that one square you will actually get to see the condition and composition of the full enemy stack. Very useful for knowing when to stop bombarding and launch the ground assault

	23-10-2001 19:14									#25
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Well, then, in that case, I am completely satisfied by the recon mission option and I will probably use it often.

Wow, what a great game this is going to be.

Thanks for the clarification Grumbold

	23-10-2001 19:57									#26
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I like that fog of war is visible. In civ2 I would always forget that I hadn't "looked at" that size 2 city with phalanxes near it lately, and when I come up on it again, it's a size 10 with musketeers, yikes! With fow I know exactly the squares for which I have current intel.

	23-10-2001 20:50									#27
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What would be ideal of course would be for terrain covered by the FOW to look the same as the rest (ie not shaded), but for the FOW to still exist (ie you cannot see units if you have no units to see them with )

Which is a system that seems strangely familiar... now which highly successful 1996 game had that system... let me think...

	24-10-2001 01:57									#28
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quote: Originally posted by HalfLotus I like that fog of war is visible. In civ2 I would always forget that I hadn't "looked at" that size 2 city with phalanxes near it lately, and when I come up on it again, it's a size 10 with musketeers, yikes! With fow I know exactly the squares for which I have current intel.

Yah that happened to me all the time, lol. I like the shaded fog, shows that you don't really know what's there, it's sort of far off and shrouded in legend type of thing.

	24-10-2001 02:26									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold If I understand it correctly, the airplane will have a view radius like any other unit, but it will only examine in detail one selected square. So like Albie suggested, for that one square you will actually get to see the condition and composition of the full enemy stack. Very useful for knowing when to stop bombarding and launch the ground assault

Wow, maybe i will use it then, so its kind of like investigate city, where you "investigate army". That could be useful in knowing whether you or your enemy will be the victor