22-10-2001 10:24									#1
	The Civ III and Sid article in a Finnish magazine Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm starting a new thread on my translation,
because there's no other thread for it.

Now, I can answer here any questions, comments or
other inquiries.

I must add that there was screenshots from
the game, but I didn't include them, because they
have already been seen here.

BTW, I suppose that was the first Sid interview
on Civilization that has been published in its
full length at Ape; or at least translation.

P.S. If you don't know what translation I'm
talking about, check the Ape's Civ III news, where Dan has posted
something.
_____________________________________________
Added later: Here's a direct link to the translation
(HTML and RTF versions available): Click here for the translation!

Last edited by Rasbelin on 23-10-2001 at 00:13

	22-10-2001 11:22									#2
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A fine job, Rasbelin, thanks for your efforts!

	22-10-2001 21:10									#3
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Thanks, Connorkimbro!

Sadly it looks like you're the only one
who has been pleased with the article.
Poor me...

Last edited by Rasbelin on 22-10-2001 at 21:18

	22-10-2001 21:32									#4
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I liked the article, too. Two quotes that are really important, IMO:

During the war, the cities resist the occupation until signing of a peace treatment between the fighting nations. After the peace treatment the city still keeps its national identity and might even turn up against the new occupants.

This may well be the explanation of the 'Madras screenshot' (three very angry Indian citizens under Roman rule - they donīt work tiles and seem to need no food).

The computer doesn't fight wars anymore for its evilness, but instead the wars are based on some goal to be achieved by the computer leader. If the computer nation needs oil and the player isn't willing to trade that, this might start a war of valuable oil fields.

This raises my hopes regarding the AI still further (they have been high since I read about Soren Johnsons AI programming background).

Thanks for the translation, Rasbelin.

	22-10-2001 21:37									#5
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You're a real translation master!

	22-10-2001 21:48									#6
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<----- What do you think?


( I wonder why they closed new zealand thread... )

	22-10-2001 21:49									#7
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Good article, good reading.

Thanks Rasbelin.

	22-10-2001 22:00									#8
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quote: Originally posted by lockstep This may well be the explanation of the 'Madras screenshot' (three very angry Indian citizens under Roman rule - they donīt work tiles and seem to need no food).

My opinion is that you have just found the answer
to that clue.

quote: This raises my hopes regarding the AI still further (they have been high since I read about Soren Johnsons AI programming background).

Well, it simply means that the AI can use logic.
A human acts reasonable (or is supposed to do so ),
but an AI uses algorithms.

quote: Thanks for the translation, Rasbelin.

You're welcome!

It was just fun and enjoyable to
translate Sid's thoughts on the gaming industry;
and hey, he revealed that he actually "respects"
the makers of Age of Empires in some way.
This is something ground breaking!
Sid is an AoE fan!?!

	22-10-2001 22:00									#9
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The article is pretty interesting...

Thanks Rasbelin

	22-10-2001 22:02									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Jusbaummer What do you think?

A nationalistic Finn?

*plays the Finnish national anthem on the background*

	22-10-2001 22:18									#11
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I must admit that the article explains the resource
system quite clearly, and I think it's the only resource
where I have seen that hiding of resources mentioned.

The player doesn't see any hidden nature resources
out in the terrain, before the technology for using
them has been invented. The capital might bee in the
middle of the world's richest uranium deposit, but you
won't get a hint about that before the scientists have
split their atoms. Nature resources can be accessed,
when they have been connected to a city with a road.
If the deposit is outside the city's limits, only a road
isn't enough, but also a mining colony built by a worker,
which will disappear after that, is needed. After this all
cities linked to the same road network can use the
deposit. In theory every nation needs only one deposit
of every nature resource.

-cut-

Nature resources don't only give bonuses, but they're
also vital for producing units and buildings.
Swordsmen need iron for their weapons and railroads coal.
The missing material has to be bought from wealthier
nations or taking it over by warfare. Destroying or
surrounding a crucial trading route is a very powerful
strategy.

	22-10-2001 23:05									#12
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Rasbelin, great job! I found it especially interesting that the AI now will have reasons for going to war (besides "you're too powerful, therefore I will attack you, as in Civ 2 ).

By the way, I turned the translation into HTML, if anyone is interested in hosting or having it. Nothing fancy or exciting, mind you, but if you prefer to read it in a browser, it might be your cup of tea. So whoever wants it, let me know.

	22-10-2001 23:26									#13
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quote: Rasbelin, great job! I found it especially interesting that the AI now will have reasons for going to war

Yes, if done well, this could REALLY enhance the atmosphere, enabling the player to add much more depth to the "story" that in previous civ games. Before, when the AI made an attack, it was always just irritating. For no reason, a sneak attack. Bastards. But now, hey, i have oil! They need oil! I'm fighting to protect my oil! That's exciting, i think!. Hopefully such things come out in the diplomacy screen, and if the AI really makes a concerted effort to get what it wants/needs, that would be awesome. That would bring so much more life to the game, IMO.

	22-10-2001 23:29									#14
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quote: Originally posted by El hidalgo I found it especially interesting that the AI now will have reasons for going to war.

Me too.

quote: By the way, I turned the translation into HTML, if anyone is interested in hosting or having it.

Just send it to my email address (rasmus@sgic.fi).
I'll upload it on my ISP's server, so that everyone
can read the translation.

	22-10-2001 23:36									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin Just send it to my email address (rasmus@sgic.fi). I'll upload it on my ISP's server, so that everyone can read the translation.

On its way!

	22-10-2001 23:38									#16
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quote: Originally posted by connorkimbro Yes, if done well, this could REALLY enhance the atmosphere, enabling the player to add much more depth to the "story" that in previous civ games.

Yeap, the original author of the article mentioned
that attacking the supplylines is a "powerful strategy";
and I suppose it's true. Just imagine all the new
opportunities to make war scenarios, where
maintaining the supplylines is vital for survival.

quote: But now, hey, i have oil! They need oil! I'm fighting to protect my oil!

It makes it easier to make up a defence plan for
your territory. At least you know what to protect.

quote: Hopefully such things come out in the diplomacy screen, and if the AI really makes a concerted effort to get what it wants/needs, that would be awesome.

At least the bartering table should help that.

quote: That would bring so much more life to the game, IMO.

I agree with you on that too.

	23-10-2001 00:01									#17
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quote: Originally posted by El hidalgo On its way!

Thanks! You have done a good job, cabalero.
I uploaded it.

	23-10-2001 00:18									#18
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I have updated the original article link.
It's now pointing to a Finnish server.

Here's the "new" link.

	23-10-2001 00:18									#19
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Great job Rasbelin, all additions to our sum knowledge greatfully recieved and this was very interesting.

David

	23-10-2001 10:18									#20
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Thank you, Dave!

I'll just drop a note that the website has been
changed, but the URL is the same as before.

	26-10-2001 17:46									#21
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Seriously: I'm not Great Finland idealist. ( Hey, if somebody really is, he needs help... ) Actually I support EU.

But Finland will be a superpower when I become its president!

	26-10-2001 18:06									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin [I]The player doesn't see any hidden nature resources out in the terrain, before the technology for using them has been invented. The capital might bee in the middle of the world's richest uranium deposit, but you won't get a hint about that before the scientists have split their atoms

good, or they would start dying of radiation sickness in 4000 BC

	26-10-2001 18:09									#23
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Nice work! Translating even fun stuff can still be a pain.

quote: Sid is an AoE fan!?!

Actually, Sid and Bruce Shelley are very close friends. Do a Google search to learn about Bruce Shelley.

	26-10-2001 18:13									#24
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Here's a bit from: http://www.ensemblestudios.com/ourteam/shelley.shtml

quote: Prior to the start of Ensemble Studios in 1995, Bruce is best known for assisting Sid Meier on the design of the original editions of Railroad Tycoon and Civilization when they were colleagues at Microprose.

Also remember that: Gettysburg was an RTS (a quite good one at that!).

	26-10-2001 18:14									#25
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I wonder did they even try civ themselves or did Sid or some other dude just tell them the info. Interview and preview didn't have even a single new picture.

	30-10-2001 21:23									#26
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by yin26
Nice work! Translating even fun stuff can still be a pain.
[QUOTE]
Thanks, Yin! It's true that it can sometimes be
like hell to translate long texts, but this time
it was more like a piece of cake.

Last edited by Rasbelin on 30-10-2001 at 21:55

	30-10-2001 21:52									#27
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quote: Originally posted by The Negotiator I wonder did they even try civ themselves or did Sid or some other dude just tell them the info. Interview and preview didn't have even a single new picture.

The author of the original article, Tuomas Honkola,
was as a guest at Firaxis' HQ (it was mentioned
in the text, lazy berk) and he actually was allowed
to play Civ III. The article included pictures and screenshots
too, but we have seen them before and they're
available on Ape, so just surf around here for them.
BTW, I can understand your sarcasm, but I
don't think it's understandable in this case, sorry.
Why? My scanner is out of work and translating
the text took "just" few hours of my time.

Further questions or comments, TG?

Rasbelin's Civilization Archive -
www.sgic.fi/~erik