22-10-2001 20:39									#1
	Extending Tournament Games Past 1909 Got spare money?

I have seen a couple of comments in games to continue past 1909 and I don't mind the idea as long as ALL games go past 1909 and not individually voted on, give unfair advantages to those in excellent positions who continue to that of players in good positions who don't get to continue cause either the GM or some of the others players don't want to.

If some games continue and some don't then the ADC points should be awarded by the end of 1909 and not the end of the game after 1909. If all games finish after 1909 then ADC points can and should be awarded at the natural finish of the game.

One of the problems for awarding ADC points at the natural end is that some players are playing a 9 year strategy and not long term which is way strategically different.

I think all the GM's need to vote and it needs or be unanimous for ADC points to be delivered at the natural end of the tourney games. One NO vote and the ADC points are delivered at the end of 1909 and if the tourney games go past 1909, the ultimate outcome has no bering on ADC points.

Comments?

	22-10-2001 22:02									#2
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I'm not sure that I follow Defiant's objection to contuning the games beyond 1909, but I can see where it creates a problem in that we are playing specifically for a 9 year game, and there are things that we'd have done differently if we had planned to play the game to completion.

The preliminary tournament games were set at nine years to keep uniformity and cohesion to the tournament games, and to allow us to start the 2001 final in the year 2001. Most games are nearing completion now, so we may just make it in.

I don't care whether the games continue or not, but I don't think that anyone should be forced to continue, nor do I think that replacement players should come in now either. If all players and a GM wish to continue it, I think it's fine to continue as if there were no early ending. Games that end in 1909 will be declared as A DIAS (draw including all survivors) unless there is a solo... for the puposes of the ADC statistics that I am keeping. How SnowFire chooses to handle the 'winners' standings is up to him, though I would think that DIAS would apply there too.

I think the decisions should be made by the GM and the players of each game.

	22-10-2001 23:07									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Maybe an example will help.
If Ruffhaus8 in 1912 solos his game, my understanding is, then Ruffhaus8 will recieve 1.00 in Snowfire's ADC point standings.
If in Game D at the end of 1909 Napoleon with his one remaining SC votes no to continuing Game D, thus only a four .25 draw would remain for me, who had an excellent chance at a solo.
Does this help or am I missing something.

Does a DIAS automatically happen at the end of 1909 and that's how Snowfire's ADC pointing system will reflect?

	23-10-2001 00:18									#4
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LOL, where is your cheesy smile, Defiant?

I might have known that this would be the case. I'm not sure what the solution is either. If it makes you feel better, I'll accept a DIAS in game C as well. Soloing has never been my intention for game C, in spite of claims to the contrary. I was trying to secure a spot in the final game. Taking a solo on the standard map is very difficult in my view, and even more so in 9 years. I've been playing the game as if it would end in 1909.

However, one thing that might help you is to avoid leaving 1 SC powers that do nothing but holding for 6 consecutive turns. I mean if Nappy can stay alive in that game for as long as he has, in my view he deserves to be part of a draw.

My point of view remains that if the preliminary round games end at 1909 without a solo, that the result be declared DIAS for ADC points calculations. The tournament scoring will recognize the placing (i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.). Playing the games out seemed like a good idea in a what if scenario, but then again most games would have taken another path in the last three years if they were not ending in 1909. I am not pushing for Game C to continue, but if Reismark, and El Al are up to the challenge, then we can throw down.

	23-10-2001 00:35									#5
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OK, that makes it clear. All ADC pointing values will occur at the end of 1909 and that is fine with me, and continuing the game if you want just for the hell of it, is up to the individuals and GM.
I don't have a problem with Napoleon getting a DIAS, it is just if we continued and the points were based on the game conclusion after 1909 and he voted no to continue, then that would not be fair.

	23-10-2001 11:26									#6
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Defiant: I'm not sure what you mean by ADC points. The tournament will probably end in 1909 "officially" so unless people want to change the scoring system now, I don't see that as real likely. RUFFHAUS's ranking is his thing and you'll have to talk to him if you were referring to that. As for the winning statistics I keep, they are completely independent of the tournament. They simply measure wins in every standard game. The tournament games last year were also considered "standard" games as well, so people got points for any draws or solos they managed in those in the winning stats. If you were referring to those, well, I intend to simply use the "standard" outcome of the game. The fact that tournament scoring stopped in 1909 is irrelevant, the "real" game goes on, and if, say, RUFFHAUS manages to solo in Game C later on, he would get the whole point.

If a game is abandoned in 1909 after tournament scoring is complete, then it's an abandoned game (in the standard sense), and no points are scored. At least that's the way I see it. Not saying it's a set in stone decision or anything, but in terms of maintaining the integrity of the regular games, it would be a bit unfair to stick in a game with a forced draw, when no regular game like say Domination has forced draws after X amount of time. Say, if I survive to 1909 in Game A, I don't want to have an incentive to abandon the game and force an unjust draw that would not have occurred had I not abandoned it.

The preliminary tournament games were set at nine years to keep uniformity and cohesion to the tournament games, and to allow us to start the 2001 final in the year 2001.

Minor editorial note on the first bit, re next year: Playing a game till it ends also has a certain uniformity to it, as well.

	23-10-2001 17:29									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Snowfire,
I am not talking about Ruffhaus8's, I am talking about yours, all I was mentioning is for the tournament games that Snowfire's ADC points will be at the end of 1909, not at the extended completion of the game. For the simple reason that some games will be extended past 1909 and some won't. That's all.