23-10-2001 13:45									#1
	Placing your opponents on the map Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I wonder if you will be able to place your opponents start where you like on the map. If you e.g. would like a game in the pre-made "real world" with the true Civs beginning the game there where they original belong, is that possible? (The British starting in England, the Americans in America and so on). If it really is so that you can do that, then I think that it will be a big thrill trying to play the game at a huge pre-made "real world" map with all 16 Civs starting in their respective places... Waauuu!

	23-10-2001 13:49									#2
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Civ 2 had the correct starting positions for civs on the worldmap too, so I'm pretty sure Civ3 will have it too...

	23-10-2001 14:13									#3
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The editor will most likely let you do this.

The question is- will it let you do it without seeing a randomly generated map?

	23-10-2001 14:34									#4
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Playing with 16 civs... Place yourself in Eurasia and the rest in America

As has been said, Civ2 had it, even CivOne did, so chances are, yes. And with this Editor, everything seems possible.

	23-10-2001 15:12									#5
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I think you'd have to choose different Civs to make a 16 player real world map with historic starting places viable. The European civs are just too close together (and England would barely have room for a single decent city) on a world scale map.

	23-10-2001 19:55									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold I think you'd have to choose different Civs to make a 16 player real world map with historic starting places viable. The European civs are just too close together (and England would barely have room for a single decent city) on a world scale map.

But, the largest earth map will be 180x180 (32,400 squares) vs 75x120 (9000 squares) in Civ 2. That's 3.6 times as large. You could fit 3 cities in the UK/Ireland in the largest earth map in Civ 2 -- so you should be able to fit 9-10 in the largest earth map in Civ 3! Assuming the proportions hold, of course, but I think it's a safe bet you'll be able to fit at least 6. And I'm sure it won't be long after release before someone makes a 256x256 map, the largest possible. 16 civs won't be enough!

	23-10-2001 20:15									#7
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I hope it'll be possible to create (earth) maps larger than the maximum size

I remember someone (Atahualpa?) made an earth map for CTP2 where you could place 3 civs in Britain

	23-10-2001 20:33									#8
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256X256=65536 tiles

75X120=9000 tiles

...and you people are talking about not enough space to play a realistic world scenario?

I just cross my fingers for someone to create an accurate world map in the 256X256 format... then I can agree with previously said "16 civs won't be enough"...

...at least us peaceful builders shall have the time of our lives waiting for the others to discover us

	23-10-2001 21:38									#9
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I think 256x256, even 180x180 screams for more than 16 civs... How about 64 civs? Now that would be something!

	24-10-2001 00:17									#10
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I remember some dude saying that on the 256x256 world maps, New Zieland itself would be able to hold like 6 cities or something like that...

	24-10-2001 00:57									#11
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Using rough math the world circumference of 25,000 miles in 250 tiles make 100 miles per tile. So Great Britain would be about 3 tiles wide by 6 tiles high.

	24-10-2001 01:11									#12
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I remeber hearing that someone already has a map ready to be converted into civ 3 that's 256 X 256. Anxiously awaiting playing on world map

	24-10-2001 01:33									#13
	In search of the allusive AI Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I can understand the reasoning behind the placement of your opponents on the "Earth" map, and having them start close to where they historically would be....

BUT I am against having the ability of placing your opponents on a radomly generated map. Finding your opponents is part of the fun in playing Civilization - exploring your "unknown" world, hoping (and praying) that an AI is NOT on your continent/island, and lastly, if you are on a "sprawling" continent - figuring out what "choke points" you will need to place a unit/city a just in case the AI is in the area inorder to "curb" the AI's expansion into your neigborhood.

If you already know where the AI's are starting out at, this allieviates the normal tension/stress you have in exploring your part of the world. IMO, this unknown element is part of the fun of the game.

Is it just me? Or does anyone else like the mystery of "where-oh-where can the AI be?"

	24-10-2001 01:33									#14
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Mars I remeber hearing that someone already has a map ready to be converted into civ 3 that's 256 X 256. Anxiously awaiting playing on world map

That's quick! I wonder what the maths teacher says when he sees the pages full of terrain rather than calculations.

	24-10-2001 01:38									#15
	Re: In search of the allusive AI Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Is it just me? Or does anyone else like the mystery of "where-oh-where can the AI be?"

I generally agree with you, but the option should be there. You may want to experiment with behaviour on a given map etc. The option should be there. No useless limitations, please!

	24-10-2001 01:43									#16
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quote: Is it just me? Or does anyone else like the mystery of "where-oh-where can the AI be?"

I too like to find my oppenents when i play random maps, but the whole purpose behind playing world maps is to have fun changing history. It takes away from it when the civs aren't in there historical starting positions, IMO.

quote: I generally agree with you, but the option should be there. You may want to experiment with behaviour on a given map etc. The option should be there. No useless limitations, please!

Agree as well

quote: That's quick! I wonder what the maths teacher says when he sees the pages full of terrain rather than calculations.

"Wow you play civ, automatic A in the class" - Math teacher

but seriously, i didn't make it, so don't give me the credit for it.

	24-10-2001 01:45									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Earthling7 I think 256x256, even 180x180 screams for more than 16 civs... How about 64 civs? Now that would be something!

And how would that fit on the Foreign Advisor Screen.

I know I would get very confused...

I want 180 civs though, that's about how many there are today, right? So we could play the real world???

	24-10-2001 02:17									#18
	Put an end to popups!

I will say that one of the most exciting things especially in the beginning of a new game is that you donīt know where your opponents are - or who they will be. But on the other hand, I think that as first stated in this thread, a pre-made earth/world map (huge) with all 16 Civs starting in their respective places are going to be so much fun! Rewriting the history once again! Even still you know your opponents nationality and where they are going to be located, remember you still have a very big task winning the game, right? It is going to be so great!

	24-10-2001 02:19									#19
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quote: I want 180 civs though, that's about how many there are today, right? So we could play the real world???

yeah,179 i believe, but a large amount of those are on islands that aren't even in the map. And talk about confusing. I guess you could always increase the map size as well to like 2048X2048 to fit them all in. i agree though that would be so cool.

	24-10-2001 02:37									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Mars yeah,179 i believe, but a large amount of those are on islands that aren't even in the map. And talk about confusing. I guess you could always increase the map size as well to like 2048X2048 to fit them all in. i agree though that would be so cool.

I dunno, I think it would be almost impossible to manage.

I think that the 16 given in Civ III represent a large range of similar cultures, that's why those particular ones are in.

I still think you shouldn't know where you are on the map until you get Astronomy.