24-10-2001 03:22									#1
	help produce a scenario at 1 C.E. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Please help me produce an historcally accurate scenario at 1 C.E.

These are the Empires I have so far

Key - Civ(Area in which civ is) - Leader(UU)

1) Roman Empire(Mediterranean) - Augustus (Legion)
2) Han China(China) - Liu Xiu(Crossbowman)
3) Parthian Empire(Iran) - ?(Horseback Archers)
4) Gupta(indian) - ?(War Elephant)
5) Germans(Germany) - ?(?)
6) ?(?) - ?(?)
7) Japanese(Japan) - ?(Ninja?)
8) Funan(Burma) - ?(Archer)
9) Bantu(Africa) - ?(?)
10) Olmec(Central America) - ?(?)
11) Inuit(Alaska and canada) - ?(dogsled?)
12) Arabs(Arabia) - ?(Trader?)
13) Anasazi(North America) - ?(Brave?)
14) Meroe(Sudan) - King Piye(Trading Ship)
15) Huns (Mongolia and Kazakhstan ) - ?(Hun Horseman?)
16) Armenia(Armenia) - ?(?)

Those are all the ones i got. The ones with (?) are ones i'm not sure on, or could do better on

I plan on making it so tha there are only 5 or so good playable civs with a few more challenging ones illustrated by their (?) (Rome, Parthian, China, India, Olmec(?), Japanese(?), Huns(?), Pelopanisans(?))

Last edited by Mars on 28-10-2001 at 20:41

	24-10-2001 04:21									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Just as long as you don't include the isrealites and give em a Jesus unit.

	24-10-2001 04:22									#3
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Wait... 1 CE? That would make it a baby Jesus unit...

	24-10-2001 05:07									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Oh what, a Jesus unit would be awesome!

It could spread propaganda like a spy, would have an attack of zero (of course) and could move on land and water like Civ II helicoptors. It would also heal faster than normal units!

I think if you want a 1 c.e. scenario, you shuold focus on the eastern hemishphere (not america) just because you could add more detail to that area. Afterall, we didn't discover the Americas until 1492, well after this scenario would end (I assume).

	24-10-2001 05:33									#5
	Put an end to popups!

My point is to allow people to expand farther. Its not supposed to be limited but the whole world. Its just supposed to give people a starting point.

Jeeze, where is everyone, usaully people are posting all over these things but there's only 3.

	24-10-2001 17:35									#6
	Re: help produce a scenario at 1 C.E. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well, I'll try and help you out a little bit.

> 8) Southeat Asia(?)

This would have to be Funan. The most important SE Asian civs came around in Medieval times, Funan is pretty much the only thing close to a civilization in the time period of your to-be scenario.

> 9) African Tribes(?)

Sub-Saharan Africans were still hunter-gatherers around this time, not even close to a civilization, but if you want to have anything as a civ it should probably be the Bantu.

> 10) Ghana(?)(or what ever trading empire was in west africa at the time)

See above, around 1 AD there was nothing even remotely resembling a civilization in West Africa. Berbers are probably closest to what you're looking for.

> 11) Inca(?)

The Incas didn't come around until 1200 AD or so. There were some primitive civs around Lake Titicaca but AFAIK little is known about them.

> 12) Inuit(?)

I don't have a clue about Inuit history so I can't comment on this.

> 13) Aztecs(?)

Like the Inca, the Aztec appeared on the Mesoamerican theatre only around 1200 AD. The Olmec were the dominant civ in this region around 1 AD.

14) Native American Tribe (?)

The Anasazi civilization started to rise around 1 AD, I don't know any other Native American tribes that are mentionworthy from this period.

> 15) Arabs(?)

There weren't the great civ they would become from 600 AD onwards but they did already exist and would be a good choice to fill up the Arabian peninsula.

> 16) Freebee

Meroe might be an interesting choice to fill up North East Africa a bit more. Northern Asia & Eastern Europe (roughly the territory that used to be covered by the USSR) is still a bit empty but I'm not sure what it could be filled up with. Looks like a good list...

	24-10-2001 17:48									#7
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Just had an idea: North Asia could be filled up with the Scythians in the west and lots and lots of barbarians in the east...

	24-10-2001 23:19									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Since possibly only the Inuit were in North America at this time; just put either Mississipians and/or Anasazi (I think they came in 100-1200), however... or you could put some barbarians [Merely to simulate nomadic herdsmen]

	24-10-2001 23:20									#9
	Remove this text

... and crop growers (mostly the latter)

	25-10-2001 03:26									#10
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quote: Sub-Saharan Africans were still hunter-gatherers around this time, not even close to a civilization, but if you want to have anything as a civ it should probably be the Bantu.

How about Ethiopia? They had a more or less developed kingdom that traded with the Romans.

	25-10-2001 12:31									#11
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DC,
I'm not sure about the Mississipians but as far as the Anasazi go, it's not quite certain when exactly they arrived in what is now the southern US. Estimates seem to range between 300 BC and 200 AD, which would make them an excellent choice for a 1 AD scenario. But you're right, a lot of Barbarians will be needed to fill up some gaps, in North America and in many other places.

Mark L,
No, Ethiopia (or rather, Aksum) came to rise around 100 AD, so this scenario plays 1 century too early for that. Aksum's immediate predecessor was Meroe though, and I already mentioned them as a good alternative. But still, I'm getting the impression Mars wants to fill up the whole world with his choices and Meroe and Aksum were both fairly small kingdoms in the north of Africa (today's Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia), that would leave a vast portion of Africa empty. The Bantu's would eventually covered pretty much the whole of Sub-Saharan Africa (though I'm not sure how widespread they were in 1 AD), so that would probably be an even better choice. A combination of Bantu, Berber, Romans, possibly Meroe and some barbarians would fill up the entire African continent nicely.

	25-10-2001 15:04									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

6) Aborigines

The Aborigines didn't build any cities, not then, not ever. I'm not sure how you could implement them into the scenario. Maybe you could fill up the entire continent with barbarians, and have a Polynesian civ, they were out to colonise then, and they finished when they reached New Zealand in 750AD. Be a good challenge...

	25-10-2001 16:02									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

Mongoloid Cow,
True, but adding Polynesia also is historically inaccurate because with the tools we currently know about we can't edit the AI and get the Polynesians to spread out the way they did in real history, one would need a scripting language or something similar for that Whether you use Aborigines who live in cities or use Polynesians who expand in a very historically inaccurate way or not at all (and who live in cities, Polynesians never built cities either) makes no real difference as far as historic accuracy is concerned, both would be a good choice. Personally I too would prefer Polynesians but, heh, it's not my scenario

	26-10-2001 03:18									#14
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according to my "Histograph" you should replace german tribes with goths and add the huns. as for the other things, i do not know...

	27-10-2001 01:05									#15
	UPDATED Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I updated my list.

Now i need UUs and leaders for every civ

the order of my chart goes like this: (if you can't understand it)

Civ - Leader(UU)

	27-10-2001 01:10									#16
	Re: UPDATED Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Mars I updated my list. Now i need UUs and leaders for every civ the order of my chart goes like this: (if you can't understand it) Civ - Leader(UU)

Oh man, dogsled, that's rude! lol

I think it will be difficult to come up with UUs for all of those because some we know very little about. And UUs are going to be what make scenarios fun!

	27-10-2001 01:13									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Ohh, BTW:
It occured to me that some people don't understand why i'm putting in these very small nations. and i'll explain why. I want to have everything the way it was in real life. I'm making it so the Player will be one of the empire; Rome, Parthian, China, or may be (for more of a challenge) with Olmec, India, Japan, or the Huns. The other civs are just filler civs. But i don't want to use the barbarians cuz they don't trade, they just attack. And trading is one of the main purposes of these little civs

	27-10-2001 01:18									#18
	Re: Re: UPDATED Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Oh man, dogsled, that's rude! lol I think it will be difficult to come up with UUs for all of those because some we know very little about. And UUs are going to be what make scenarios fun!

What's rude about it. Its what they had, isn't it. Anyways, do you have a better suggestion

	27-10-2001 01:46									#19
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Historically, the Emperor of the Han Empire at 1 CE was a certain Liu Yan, known ceremonially as Han-Ping-Di (Emperor of Peace of the Han). One teeny problem is that this person was a totally pathetic emperor. He was the second last emperor of the Former Han Dynasty, and after he died his Dynasty quickly collapsed into political turmoil. Not a great emperor to play.

One way to go around this problem is if we cheat a bit and take the brilliant emperor closest in time. That would be Liu Xiu, ceremonially Han-Guangwu-Di (Emperor of Illustrious Might of the Han). He reigned 25-57 CE and he emerged from the civil wars at the end of the Former Han Dynasty, to create the Later Han Dynasty, which lasted for another two centuries.

As for the repeat-crossbow, it hasn't been invented yet a 1 CE and I really don't know what else the Chinese can have at that period...

	27-10-2001 02:38									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The 4 main empires at 1 A.D were:
Roman (Erope/Med)
Guptua (Indian Subcontinent)
Han Dynasty (China, Tibet, Mongolia, and a bit of Pakistan!)
Sassanid (Middle East, at least what wasnt Roman)

the others?
The Huns,
Early Vikes
Japanese/Korean,
Kush (Ethiopia)
some random S.E Asia power (What was before Angor Wat?)
etc.

But at 1 A.D, those 4 were key

EDIT: some UU units...
Rome:Legion (duh!)
Hans:Regular Chinese UU Horseman (only stirrups in the world, the best riders)
Sassanid: Horseback Archers (Best Archers, and could fire from horseback very easily) Or some Siege Weapon (Best nation to Siege cities since Assyria)
Guptua: Either an Elephant or mobile Infantry (Indian Infantry at this time were clothed in Cloth, which was lighter than metal and almost as good, allowing more agility and more distance traveled)

	27-10-2001 02:59									#21
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Thanks Gopher and Ranskaldan i'm updating my list now.

Though I'm not sure about one of your points Gopher. When did the Parthians fall. Was that before or after 1. c.e. Cuz the sassanids preceeded them, as you most likely know.

Anyways Rankskaldan reminded me of a point. You can cheat slightly if at that time, say an item or leader didn't exist but 1-100 years later it is the most important thing or leader of that empire.

	27-10-2001 07:02									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

Mars:

Change the Chinese UU from Tang cavalry to Han cavalry. The Dynasty at that time was the Han. The Tang dynasty came later, during the 7th century.

	27-10-2001 11:10									#23
	Got spare money?

Kush was in Nubia, which at that time was ruled by Meroe. There are only a few known Nubian kings (mainly because no one alive can read their language), there was an Egyptian dynasty which were Nubians more than a thousand years before this scenario, and there was King Piye (Pukiet(?))

If you manage to free up a civ slot, why not put Armenia in? They had to fight the Romans, Scythians and Parthians, and play them off with each other, to survive. And they were the worlds first Christian nation.

Ignore the Sassanid Persians as they started up after 1 AD.

The Meroic UU could be some form of trading/transport ship.

Arabs should be Bedouins. There was no Arab state or unity at that time. The term 'Arab' normally applies after Muhammad in 632(?)AD

The Funan UU might be either an archer or spearman modification.

	27-10-2001 15:12									#24
	Got spare money?

Kush == Meroe, though Meroe is a more accurate name, so I suggest you drop Kush. This frees up a spot, which you probably best fill up with either the Scythians (as I suggested earlier) or, maybe even better, the Armenians (very good idea, Mongoloid Cow!).

Around 1 AD the first wave of Huns had already moved to Kazakhstan so you'll want to put the Huns in Kazakhstan or in Kazakhstan and Mongolia but definitely not just in Mongolia...

There seem to be many misconceptions about the Arabs. Many people seem to think they're not a civ but a race (or something like that) and many (other?) people seem to think that Arab history started in 634 AD with Muhammed. Both ideas are bullsh*t, the Arabs were a unified civilization that came into existance around 750 BC and have been an important trading nation ever since (concentrated in the southern Arabian peninsula, from 650 AD onwards spreading out to cover the entire Middle East, Northern Africa and Spain). This is a good source on their (early) history.

UUs and leaders could in some cases be tough. In case of China I would use the Crossbow. The repeated crossbow wasn't invented yet but the regular crossbow was used by the Chinese long before 1 AD (and it would be many centuries before it came into use elsewhere). The Hunnic UU should probably be Horse(back) Archer, but since you already have that as UU for Parthia, just Horseman or Rider (in other words, recycle the Chinese UU) might be a better choice. As you can read in this week's CotW feature on Civ3.com, Samurai didn't came around until much later so you can't really use those as UU for the Japanese. As Olmec UU I would probably just recycle the Aztec UU, Eagle Warrior it was I think? Most of these civs weren't exactly at the height of their power around 1 AD so finding suitable leaders will be challenging but I'll see if I can do some research for you when I have more time.

Last edited by Locutus on 27-10-2001 at 15:18

	27-10-2001 19:42									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

Thanks for correcting me i wasn't actaully sure what Meroe was.

Can you tell me where Arminea was, what current nation

I'm updating the list now

	28-10-2001 00:33									#26
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quote: Kush == Meroe

Not always. There has been a non-Kush Meroe I believe.

	28-10-2001 03:27									#27
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Mark L,
I was talking in the context of this scenario. Otherwise you would of course be correct. In fact, I think Meroe was probably one of the least important of the Kushite kingdoms (the only less important one that comes to mind is Napate).

Mars,
What modern country Armenia is today? How about Armenia?
It was an empire just east of the Roman Empire and northwest of Parthia. At its height it covered the Caucasus, part of western Iran and eastern Turkey. I'll see if I can find a map (saw a good one earlier today, if I can find it back).

	28-10-2001 03:35									#28
	Found it! Tired of ads?

http://www.roman-emperors.org/sest01.jpg (SE Roman Empire in 1 AD)

Edit: just noticed. Sythians are Scytians right? In that case they're not Africans but (Eur)asians. They lived north of the Black Sea, in the Crimean area and north of Armenia.

Attachment: sest01.jpg
This has been downloaded 274 time(s).

Last edited by Locutus on 28-10-2001 at 03:42

	28-10-2001 04:58									#29
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Oh woops i forgot about Armenia, i thought that rung a bell but couldn't find it, must of overlooked it. (One of those former soviet bloc countries i see) thanks for the map

	28-10-2001 05:10									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

spelling issues:
Agustus should be Augustus.
Guptua should be Gupta.

Sythians? If you mean Scythians then they should be in Southeastern Europe.

And Germanic tribes is such a mouthful. Why not 'Germanics' or 'Germans'?