24-10-2001 06:29									#1
	Windows XP Upgrades Support Apolyton

Alright, here's a pseudo-Civ3 related question. I have the option through a buddy to pick up Windows XP upgrade for $20. I have to figure out by this weekend if I want it. However, i don't want to screw up my system before my pre-ordered Civ3 arrives (finally talked my girlfriend into an early Xmas gift, as it's what I really, really wanted )

My system:
P2-400
128 MB RAM
GeForece2 MX

The recommended system min for XP is a 300 MHz Pentium family chip with 128 RAM, now does anyone out there with similarly powered computers have XP? How does it perform?

Thanks for any help, this is damn important because I'm already at the low end of Civ3 system requirements, I don't want to handicap myself further with a new system-hogging OS.

	24-10-2001 06:33									#2
	Support Apolyton

To help you with this decision I will list below all of the reasons I can think of to upgrade to XP:
















....

(I am still using win 98 FIRST edition, lol)

	24-10-2001 07:00									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't think I'd upgrade to XP with those specs. I'm running XP now on an Athlon 1.4 Ghz, 512 MB RAM, and even at that it can lag occasionally. It's a sweet O/S - haven't had to reboot the PC ever in 2+ months, but I don't know that I'd upgrade if I were you.

	24-10-2001 07:04									#4
	Got spare money?

It depend on what you are running now. If your current O/S hasn't had a blue screen in the last 30 days, then it doesn't make sense to upgrade. If you can't make it thru the day without seeing the blue screen, then you should upgrade.

If you aren't going to upgrade, that $20 would be better spent on another 128MB stick of RAM.

	24-10-2001 07:31									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have Win98

I'm mainly looking to upgrade for my folks and future usage, as I'll be getting out of grad school in May and getting a new computer over the summer, so my current one will get shipped to the folks to replace a buggy P1-133, but I don't want to limit their ability to use the computer if XP is going to be a widespread OS

	24-10-2001 07:43									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

MS considers Win98 dead as of June 30th 2002, and will end support of it one year later.

	24-10-2001 08:00									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I am going to get a new system with XP installed. My only concern is if Civ3 sucks (heaven forbid) will Civ2 or SMAC still work on XP? It should but if it doesn't I'm screwed.

	24-10-2001 08:10									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm playing Civ II on XP right now. No problema.

	24-10-2001 08:17									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by saracen31 I'm playing Civ II on XP right now. No problema.

Excellent!!!!!!! Then I'm definitely telling that sales guy not to give me 98SE! I want XP!

	24-10-2001 08:22									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick .... (I am still using win 98 FIRST edition, lol)

I have been using XP since this summer when I got it through MS's test thing so that I could test it for my summer employer. All I can say is that if you are using Windows OS, XP is far superior to anything I have ever used before and that includes 2000 which I own (although due to legal reasons I may not be able to reinstall it).

Why is XP so good?

Well for one, like 2000, it never crashes. Period. Crashes do not happen. The OS has simply never stopped. Occassionly programs will crash but that has never resulted in the OS stopping. Quite simply it is crash-proof.

Second, it is absolutely the fastest OS I have ever seen and that includes the Linux kernels I have messed around with. Log in, including typing my password, takes less than 30 seconds. That is the entire length of time that it takes to get on to your computer. Then once on, programs run amazingly fast. One of XP's features is that if you have the harddrive space, it will optimize locations for putting heavily used programs extra processes so that it speads them up. Plain and simply it is fast.

There are some other reasons, but most of are just personal preferences that I never thought I would like (the blue does look nice and the new start menu is smart). I thought that XP would be somthing annoying but it is really pretty smart. You should take a look at it, you will be glad you did.

	24-10-2001 08:22									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I was worried about compatibility issues when I first installed XP, so I just put it on another partition (the C: drive is Windows ME, ugh.)

There's only been 1 program I can't run on XP: High Heat Baseball 2002 - seems to be incompatible no matter what I do. No big loss there.

For the most part, games & apps are smoother and prettier in XP.

	24-10-2001 08:23									#12
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Simpleton I am going to get a new system with XP installed. My only concern is if Civ3 sucks (heaven forbid) will Civ2 or SMAC still work on XP? It should but if it doesn't I'm screwed.

I know that someone mentioned Civ2, just to reassure you, SMAC works as well. Just finished playing my MP turns.

	24-10-2001 08:28									#13
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Agreed, tniem. It just flat never crashes. Never. I have had a couple hangups here & there, but the Program Manager lets you get rid of the problem with no reboot.

There's not even a need to reboot after installing new hardware or drivers. I am a fan of Win 2000, but Microsoft (for once) really outdid themselves this time.

	24-10-2001 09:55									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well, I have made up my mind on the subject: gonna get XP.

I can always create a partition with Win98 if I have to, just in case some of my apps don't run- but I don't forsee that happening really.

	24-10-2001 10:40									#15
	Support Apolyton

Serapis,
If you upgrade to XP, get some more RAM while you are at it. Minimal system with XP is 128M.

XP wants to talk to Microsoft within 30 days of installation, to "Activate". Which means to register your hardware specs to that occurance (ala serial #) of the system. It's their anti-piracy scheme, so if this is a "copy" and you don't somehow get around it, ...

	24-10-2001 10:41									#16
	Remove this text

So basically, you HAVE to have an internet connection to use XP, right?

	24-10-2001 16:32									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba So basically, you HAVE to have an internet connection to use XP, right?

If you have no internet connection, there's a toll-free number you can call to activate it. So no, you don't need an internet connection.

	24-10-2001 16:34									#18
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Thanx

[btw- I do have an internet connection, but I was just curious. ]

	24-10-2001 16:58									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Guess I won't be replacing my 98SE. We have two computers, and although we have enough 98 to go around (OEM), I do not fancy buying two XPs.

Even if I had only one PC, I would not buy it. I hate babbleware.

	24-10-2001 18:20									#20
	Um... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Well for one, like 2000, it never crashes. Period. Crashes do not happen. The OS has simply never stopped. Occassionly programs will crash but that has never resulted in the OS stopping. Quite simply it is crash-proof.

I would agree that Windows 2000 and Windows XP are vastly more stable than 95/98/Me, but this statement is patently untrue. It is possible, for example, for bad device drivers to hose the 2000/XP kernel in ways that make your system go bye-bye. I have experienced occasional Blue Screens of Death while running 2000, and SMAC has a nasty habit of hanging my system very quickly under 2000 and XP.

That said, I would still recommend XP over Windows 9x for new buyers with the hardware to run it well.

	24-10-2001 18:25									#21
	Oh, by the way... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

... I wouldn't run XP on less than 256MB of RAM. It will work on 128MB, but you'll enjoy it a lot more with extra memory. RAM is cheap enough now, anyway (unless you're one of those poor souls buying RDRAM for their Pentium 4 systems.)

	24-10-2001 20:32									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I would get XP, but don't put it on your system yet. My friend got a free copy from his work (HP). They use it so they will have drivers available from the get-go. I installed it on my system (Athlon 1.4Ghz, 256Megs DDR ram) and it ran very quickly and decently. However, I did have a number of problems:

1. Hardware conflicts- for whatever reason, XP had difficulty with my sound card (Monster Sound MX300). This was a headache I wasn't able to resolve.

2. Some DOS games and almost all my older 98 games wouldn't run correctly in XP. Any game that didn't have Win 2000 support wouldn't run correctly. Windows even gave me an error that Half-Life "would not run correctly under XP without a patch from Sierra".

3. Some lockups/random reboots (May have been caused by hardware conflicts)

I suggest you get it and keep it til the 1st service pack is released, then install it. It looks like a great OS, it just needs a patch or two.

	24-10-2001 21:05									#23
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Mahdimael 2. Some DOS games and almost all my older 98 games wouldn't run correctly in XP. Any game that didn't have Win 2000 support wouldn't run correctly. Windows even gave me an error that Half-Life "would not run correctly under XP without a patch from Sierra". I suggest you get it and keep it til the 1st service pack is released, then install it. It looks like a great OS, it just needs a patch or two.

Regarding #2, I thought there was a feature in XP that allowed games to emulate their native environment? I.e. Install the game as usual but right click on a desktop shortcut and select to run the game via DOS, Win95/98, Win2000 "emulator" built in.

Is this not the case?

Also, how does Java work with XP, anyone know? Oh, and I'd also wait until the first OS upgrade as well just to be safe.

	24-10-2001 21:29									#24
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Well I am currently 'working' on acquiring Windows XP. I have an Athlon 700 with 384Mb RAM, so I reckon it should cope with it without too much hassle.

	24-10-2001 22:08									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous: Regarding #2, I thought there was a feature in XP that allowed games to emulate their native environment? I.e. Install the game as usual but right click on a desktop shortcut and select to run the game via DOS, Win95/98, Win2000 "emulator" built in.

Seems to work better in theory than in practice. Yes, there is a right-click option to emulate native environments, but I haven't needed it yet. I think some publishers are just holding off on patches until XP is an actual released product. That explains the soundcard problems too. SoundBlaster, for example, is holding off - who wants to create new drivers for a product in beta?

quote: Also, how does Java work with XP, anyone know?

I'm using the JBuilder 5 IDE, it's a lot more attractive & runs faster in XP than in Win 98SE.

	24-10-2001 22:38									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Well I am currently 'working' on acquiring Windows XP. I have an Athlon 700 with 384Mb RAM, so I reckon it should cope with it without too much hassle.

Does that mean me?

	24-10-2001 23:26									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I may lose this battle in the long run, but I refuse to buy babbleware. I have nothing against registering software if it benefits me in some way, but compulsary babble is unacceptable!

	25-10-2001 03:51									#28
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous Regarding #2, I thought there was a feature in XP that allowed games to emulate their native environment? I.e. Install the game as usual but right click on a desktop shortcut and select to run the game via DOS, Win95/98, Win2000 "emulator" built in. Is this not the case? Also, how does Java work with XP, anyone know? Oh, and I'd also wait until the first OS upgrade as well just to be safe.

Yes, you can choose to emulate 95, 98, 2000 or NT. It doesn't work very well, and the emulation seems to be just that...I've noticed slower performance in 98 compatibility mode than on my machine w/ 98 installed. In some emulation modes, games won't work, nor will they in XP native mode.

Surprisingly, a number of original 95 and DOS games worked fine..Colonization for Windows, Imperialism 2, Pirates Gold. But a majority of the stuff I have doesn't work.

	25-10-2001 05:15									#29
	Re: Um... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Lee Johnson I would agree that Windows 2000 and Windows XP are vastly more stable than 95/98/Me, but this statement is patently untrue. It is possible, for example, for bad device drivers to hose the 2000/XP kernel in ways that make your system go bye-bye. I have experienced occasional Blue Screens of Death while running 2000, and SMAC has a nasty habit of hanging my system very quickly under 2000 and XP.

Yes, you are right, it is possible. But it doesn't happen often. I have gone three weeks without a single hitch and the only reason it wasn't longer is that I was going away for a weekend and shut my computer down. When I first installed I did get the blue screen of death but because I had a driver that was not 2000/XP complient. Took one download to fix that and since that not a single problem.

That's compared with Windows ME where it crashed every hour on the hour. No joke. That is why I originally got Windows 2K so that I wouldn't have to deal with ME and now XP just goes further. Slick interface plus amazingly good stability and a decent OS. Certainly the best MS OS ever.


By the way, sorry about SMAC, mine works fine.

	25-10-2001 05:51									#30
	Get a bigger avatar today!

If you're worried about not being able to play in XP, just do a separate partition for it - even if you upgrade from 98, all you have to do is make two installs of 98 and then upgrade one of them while keeping the other. Or, if you've got partitionmagic, just make a new partition to install 98 and then XP on.

I haven't tried XP myself, but my best mate's been testing it, and it's a dream of an OS. I'm going to get a new HD, install XP on it, and then let 98 wither away on this old disk.