26-10-2001 15:02									#31
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quote: i like the slave/trader ideas

ditto. But I have to admit I'd want to use them myself. Does it cost you to maintain the enslaved workers?

quote: Take a Shite-load of Horseys and ambush the empires workers/settlers/defenceless, capturable units untill his empire is reduced to alotta cities, but no infastructure.

I can't see it working in the early years...the Civs are just too far apart, and you'll have too few, too small cities to pump out all the horsies you think you'll need. Remember the anti-ICS measures are going to make it difficult for run-away cities to develop early in the game. If you want to build lots of units, you have to have a fair number of cities in the first place...or build up the numbers over a period of time...by which time your horsies will be musket (or panzer...he! he!) fodder.

quote: I used this in diety Civ2.

quote: They recaptured it,(they got 20 gold). I recaptured it (got a free tech plus lotsa gold)....etc.

I so, so hope that the AI is not this daft in Civ3. I hope they've built an AI that toasts your nearby units...and then takes back the city.

quote: With almost a unit per turn just from those cities, I will overwhelm the AI.

And with your small number of tiny small cities, how are you going to pay for the upkeep of all of them?

For myself....Resource denial is going to be the first strategy I will try. If you can rule the seas in the middle game, and block the land routes by destroying the roads that leave the enemy civ...I think you'll have a good chance of taking out that civ. Use more troops as you develop them to take over and defend luxuries and strategic resources within the enemies borders...and as his production falls behind and he cannot produce new troops because the resources are taken over, and the civ is blockaded so he cannot trade for them...the civ will slowly fall apart and you can take it down piece at a time.

	26-10-2001 16:53									#32
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About the slave trader idea, it wouldnt be too much of a problem supporting them. They only cost gold now, not food or production. So, just get them busy building roads. The roads will generate extra trade, and that extra trade will pay for the extra workers you have stolen. They provide for themselves

	26-10-2001 17:58									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Gralak quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia -The Wombat Maneuver (coined by Immortal Wombat in CTP) (1) Get a a really good city. Could be anywhere, but preferably in the center of your civ. (2) Empty the city of units (3) Sell it to another civ (which you hate) for mucho money. If the civ is more technologically advanced, the better. ...and when your armies are closing enemy city (slow, because in enemy territory), enemy builds a cheap unit and KABOOM! destroys the city.

Originally, I gave my city away in return for an enemy city on another continent. (CtP2) This gave me a brilliant bridgehead from which to stage further offensives.
The armies I had moved out of my city were only one square away, so could take it back, before the AI had even had a turn in which to rush-buy a unit. My borders remained intact, the *good* city lost a couple of population points, and I gained a city.
As a way to begin a war far away, its not bad, as long as you are fully prepared to begin with.

I think I will have a good go at a peaceful but immernsely powerful empire using the coercive seiging, starving and capturing technique.

	27-10-2001 02:01									#34
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quote: They only cost gold now, not food or production. So, just get them busy building roads. The roads will generate extra trade, and that extra trade will pay for the extra workers you have stolen. They provide for themselves

They only provide for themselves if you are exploting that square, and given that the population in early game is now going to be kept much lower due to anti-ICS measures, less money should be available for luxuries like slaves.

	27-10-2001 02:40									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker 'Trench Warfare': stacks don't die...so build a mass of riflemen protecting workers making forts...and slowly advance...while your enemy is wasting time on cannons, tanks, or other expensive (in construction turns) units, you just have this TIDAL WAVE of quickly produced cheap-ass riflemen, all entrenched stacks. The mass of entrenched units will eventually reach the enemy city and engulf it like bacteria....without EVER ATTACKING!

Sure stacks don't die, BUT if its anything like in AC, which I think it is, units in stacks will get damaged to some extent. And if its really really damaged, then it might get eliminated. And in such a system, trust me, artillery are a blessing! 'course cavalry doesn't hurt either.

	27-10-2001 02:46									#36
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Your idea also sounds really, really expensive. How will you support all those infantry guys? But I think with some modifications it could work beautifully. particullary if the other guy doesn't have tanks.

You'd need artillery, plenty of it, and if possible, some aircraft as reconaisance. Reconaissance is a must, or you can easily be doomed to sacrificing your infantry. Ooh, a WWI scenario in civ 3 would ROCK!

Ioanes

	27-10-2001 02:54									#37
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quote: 'Trench Warfare'

This idea sounds really good!

But it's only going to be avaiable during a very short window of opportunity as it was in the real world.

WW1 sucked, eh!

Where do you get those troops?

Drafting.
CON: Massive unhappiness - for every citizen drafted, one other citizen in that city is unhappy for 20 turns. You can't do it too often.

Forced Labour.
CON: Unhappiness again.

It seems to me that your strategy will depend upon circumventing the unhappiness problem. Are there any imporvements that only reduce unhappiness in wartime?

	27-10-2001 05:04									#38
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quote: Originally posted by UKScud It seems to me that your strategy will depend upon circumventing the unhappiness problem. Are there any imporvements that only reduce unhappiness in wartime?

I think that when you are winning a war, your people are happier. So if you dont use cannon-fodder tactics, then your people shouldnt be too upset. But then again, if you use conscripts, then you will be using cannon-fodder tactics

	27-10-2001 07:52									#39
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I think the most exicting thing here is that all these cool possible strategies; slave trader, commodity trader etc all sound like real strategies. Tactics used in real life rather than merely abusing the rules of a game.

A good sign I think.

	27-10-2001 10:06									#40
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Communist Kitten says that dying from enemy bullets is merely a lack of proper Communist principles! Forward my brave conscripts or you'll get fire in the rear!

I'm sure that there will be ways and means of keeping cities happy And I think it may involve the army

	27-10-2001 10:14									#41
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These kind of threads are sickening. People complain about the AI and then they come on this board to try find stratigies to beat the AI. I'm going to do my best to ignore all the stratigies and just have fun.

	27-10-2001 15:45									#42
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Dennis...sickening..please!

It's clear form the majority of these posts that what most people are concerned about is that the AI is able to mimic what might be regarded as "real world" tactics...and for ourselves to simulate those tactics too?

and guess what? We're having fun too!!

If you want to approach the game with a "see what happens" attitude...well...more power to you...you are going to get beaten many times before you work out what kind of decisions lead to a "good game", be that a "win" or even just surviving to the end and "losing" on average score on the histogram.

Many others want to approach their first game from a more "speculative" (I can hardly say informed, as we are coming up with ideas based on rules slowly leaked over a period of months) position. I'll be trying to find out what makes the resource model tick, and win if I can.

How, oh how...can any of that be sickening? eh?

	27-10-2001 18:13									#43
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Keep all the other civilizations continually at war with at least one other civ. If the AI was designed badly, they'll stay mobilized the entire time, preventing them from building any peaceful improvements, hurting them culturally and scientifically. They'll probably also be prohibited from building Wonders.

	27-10-2001 18:42									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Executor They'll probably also be prohibited from building Wonders.

Unless, of course, it's a Military-type Wonder.

	28-10-2001 05:55									#45
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Hmmm, that could potentially be unbalancing, unless there is a 'peaceful' mode that gives bonuses.

Imagine starting a (military) wonder in your city. Then you mobilize for war, and that city is now producing 21 more resources, plus bonuses from a factory and powerplant.... You could churn out wonders like theres no tomorrow...