25-10-2001 23:17									#1
	Will the advisors be of any use? Inflate your Upload Space

In alot of the screenshots, we see advisors "advising" the player on what to do (besides setting up queues). We all know that the advisors in Civ2 were an absolute and complete joke, why would Civ3 be that much better? Do you think that the AI can determine long-range strategy and thus advise you what to do next??? Why did they spend so much time building something like that in the game when very shortly, we'll be able to figure this stuff out better for ourselves. I'm all for help screens and tutorials, but this seems to go beyond to where they believe advisors are necessary for game play.

"Why would we let the AI do anything when we can do it better?"

	25-10-2001 23:22									#2
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I'm sure some of the adviser messages will get old and we'll find them useless, but I've seen a few in the screenshots that I think will be useful in quickly telling us info we'd have to search for. Such as the domestic adviser telling us that city X is not growing...or not producing enough food to survive.

We'll have to wait and see. I'm sure they knew the advisors in Civ I and II weren't that useful, so hopefully they worked to improve them.

	25-10-2001 23:23									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

They're useful for facts that you wouldn't otherwise know. For example, they will say that another civ is "more technologically advanced" or "they are ahead in production" or "they will never accept this proposal", etc.

	25-10-2001 23:27									#4
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I think they will be invaluable because there is so much information to be had in CIV 3, that by having an advisor point something out to you is very useful. For example, if your military advisor tells you that there is lots of room to expand your military, I see that as a great tool. If you're foreign advisor is telling you that an enemy is technically advanced, you'd want to try to increase your science, or steal their technology.

I don't know about you, but I'm going to keep a close eye on what my advisors say.

Besides, other than practicality, I think they add an huge element of atmosphere to the game, which to me, is very important.

	25-10-2001 23:42									#5
	Tired of ads?

Well, I always loved that little science dude that said "we're numer one in SCIENCE!!!!!" and be so enthusiastic as to compare me to a double clock speed microchip


I have seen so far that the advisors basically keep your civ "on a leash"
They tell you when your screwing up, more than what you should do now....
I haven't seen one positive advisor message yet
"Your city isn't producing!"

I want my advisor to just say "Hey Dave, your doing a great job "

I know I sure as hell won't get that kind of response from other civs

	25-10-2001 23:57									#6
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I'm sure the advisers have their happy moments. It did happen in the Civ2 council. I loved it when the Military Dude got drunk in his armour...

	25-10-2001 23:57									#7
	Re: Will the advisors be of any use? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark We all know that the advisors in Civ2 were an absolute and complete joke, why would Civ3 be that much better?

I doubt it would.

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark Why did they spend so much time building something like that in the game when very shortly, we'll be able to figure this stuff out better for ourselves. I'm all for help screens and tutorials, but this seems to go beyond to where they believe advisors are necessary for game play.

From a business perspective it makes perfect sense to have advisors (and governors, etc.). Firaxis is in the business of making games that sell. If they want to increase their customer base beyond those that post at Apolyton, they are going to need to create some simplifications for the "casual" (beginning) civ player. Not everyone has an illness where they need to come check the Apolyton boards every twenty minutes to see if by some chance they might have released Civ III six days too early and I, er I mean you, would need to rush to the store to go and get it .

Firaxis knows they have us. They could eliminate the governors and advisors and it wouldn't phase us in the slightest. However, they do need to worry about the twelve year olds out there (that wasn't meant as any kind of slam, rather kudos to those twelve year olds that take on playing civ) that are introduced to Civ for the first time.

I think I made my point, but it may have been garbled for all my vain attempts at humorous (humorless?) rhetoric.

	26-10-2001 00:09									#8
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I think the advisors will be useful to cut some micromanagement. We have seen screens where the domestic advisor is telling the player about a city that has finished producing something. the advisors lets the player quickly change production WITHOUT going into the city screen. It will be very useful to be able to change production or change science directly without going through the screens.

	26-10-2001 00:24									#9
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No advisors = sales of game 30,000.
Advisors and the hype their screens create = 100,000.
Advisors and governors that handle micromanagement for the "less intense" gamer = more people who will recommend the game = more after release sales.
And, they add atmosphere and humor.

	26-10-2001 00:34									#10
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quote: Will the advisors be of any use?

uhhh..I mean no.

	26-10-2001 00:40									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Blaupanzer And, they add atmosphere and humor.

They.. umpfh.. are.. .hillary... ous...

Come on peoples. If you have seen the screenshots, you will know that they are more than Artificial Idiots. If you haven't seen the screenshots, check them out and come back!

	26-10-2001 02:44									#12
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They seem to be informational, at the very least. In Civ II, I always hated when what seemed like a good offer made the other civ become my mortal enemy . The only thing I could safely give was gold.

They'll at least be useful during diplomacy.

Of course, listening to them is totally optional.

	26-10-2001 02:50									#13
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I think the advisors will definetely be good at reminding me of those little things I always forgot to do in Civ II. And the adivisors know the rules of the game so to speak, so they will know if the enemy is advanced and stuff.

I also think they're very funny. We should send paper airplanes!

	26-10-2001 04:17									#14
	Re: Re: Will the advisors be of any use? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Zardos Firaxis knows they have us. They could eliminate the governors and advisors and it wouldn't phase us in the slightest. However, they do need to worry about the twelve year olds out there (that wasn't meant as any kind of slam, rather kudos to those twelve year olds that take on playing civ) that are introduced to Civ for the first time.

Hey, I am 13 and I was playing civ (1) at the age of 6. And I could beat emperor level too, so dont be dissing civ playing 12 year olds.

	26-10-2001 13:28									#15
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Steve,

I completely agree with your post! They should have spent all that time and all those resources on developing MP instead...

Case closed!

Carolus

	26-10-2001 13:34									#16
	Re: Re: Re: Will the advisors be of any use? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by FireDragon Hey, I am 13 and I was playing civ (1) at the age of 6. And I could beat emperor level too, so dont be dissing civ playing 12 year olds.

You're 13 and already decided to be evil? Hmmm...

I am not doing a research for my phd, so would you tell me, what does a six year old think of Civ? Is the comprehention different from now? Has Civ made you evil, especially Civ1 where was was often the only option?

	26-10-2001 13:41									#17
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Carolus, please, no with the MP thing!

Civ3 is SP. Fact.

Would be cool if some net-based MP miracle were available from day 1. But it isnt! Sometime in the future maybe!

As far as advisors go, I agree that they are useful for beginners and to cut down micromanagement! But not much else!

	26-10-2001 14:04									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin I think they will be invaluable because there is so much information to be had in CIV 3, that by having an advisor point something out to you is very useful. For example, if your military advisor tells you that there is lots of room to expand your military, I see that as a great tool. If you're foreign advisor is telling you that an enemy is technically advanced, you'd want to try to increase your science, or steal their technology.

I won't necessarily always use the advisors for.. uh.. advice; but a lot of what the advisors do is just let you know general information about your empire, so they may be worth keeping around just to keep you updated on things.

	26-10-2001 14:28									#19
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I remeber 10 years ago when I first started to play civ1.
I was a poor Civ1 player, but after some time I started to look on advices from city build screen. After some time listening advices, I managed to beat up AI on a Prince level. Later I found that not all copmuter advices are enough good to beat a copmuter on higher levels.
And at the end I made some my one strategies & beat up AI on emperor level. Several yeras later I discovered a ISC strategy (on my own) and game became easy on every level.

Anyway, Civ2 concuil was just for fun, it never gived any usefull advice, still
building sceen advices were relativly good and I bet that they, together with some new advisiors would give a novice players a lot of help.

So I say that ADVISIROS will be usefull for learning the game & even a civ veterans need to learn this game because it is just to much different copmared to previous CIVs.

I also hope that in next expansion pack AI will be improved (by help of players inputs), and that advisiors & governors would do better then
in CIV3 v1.0

	26-10-2001 14:59									#20
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They should be of entertainment value only.
For example if you had a city that was population capped and needed an aqueduct to expand your advisor would/should suggest "Sire the people are thirsty, we should build an aqueduct." When you subsequently select "Catapult" in the drop down list the advisor should change to. "You never listen to me, I am here for you day in day out for thousands of years and all you do is ignore me. You not even listening now are you."

	26-10-2001 15:34									#21
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Pessimists, pessimists...

It looks like advisors will be saying something useful, at least time to time, and, most important, it adds some great atmosphere. I want Civ 3!

	26-10-2001 16:43									#22
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quote: Originally posted by MisterMuppet "You never listen to me, I am here for you day in day out for thousands of years and all you do is ignore me. You not even listening now are you."

	26-10-2001 16:58									#23
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I suppose those quick functions might be handy,
but the rest we will probably turn off after few games.

	26-10-2001 17:18									#24
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In Civ 2 the advisors only confirmed what i already knew. No matter I love that feature and no doubt it is much improved in Civ 3.

	26-10-2001 17:21									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Civ Dave I want my advisor to just say "Hey Dave, your doing a great job

We might invent how to do that, if Firaxis hasn't
tried to make that impossible.

Hopefully good old Notepad will still be usefull.

	26-10-2001 17:25									#26
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I think that the advisors will be very useful in the beginning (as a tutorial), for a few games. After that they can be used as a reminder of how certain things work (if something is forgotten).

And for Anuninkoba - very nice signature

	26-10-2001 17:26									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by The Negotiator In Civ 2 the advisors only confirmed what i already knew.

Same for me. Especially the Elvis that was
supposed to be an "attitude advisor", took
on my nervs.

	26-10-2001 17:49									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin Hopefully good old Notepad will still be usefull.

Apparently all the values are coded by the editor, so notepad wont help much with editing. On the plus side though, the lack of text files helps the game load faster (information from Dan Magaha) Not sure of which thread.

Ras: Elvis bugged me too

	26-10-2001 20:13									#29
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yeah, I remember the Military Advisor in Civ I who used to tell me "WE SHOULD BUILD A NUCLEAR".

Trying to get me wiped out, was he?

	26-10-2001 20:14									#30
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I hope the trade advisor will be very helpful not to insult your opponent or in provokig your enemy