26-10-2001 01:01									#1
	Modern city view VERY disappointing! Get a bigger avatar today!

I have to say I was very disappointed with the modern city view from Avault.

The artwork is beautiful; but what's all this empty space everywhere inside the city??? Do they imagine a modern city has vast tracts of empty land in its suburbs? The downtown skyscrapers are fine; but the rest looks like an unfinished building lot with occasional city structures scattered about at random!

Neither Civ1 nor Civ2 were like this -- esp. Civ1 showed the city all together in a compact area with the improvements and wonders distributed among the other buildings in a much more natural way.

Anyone else feel the same?

	26-10-2001 01:05									#2
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I agree, skyscrapers next to open fields and a few houses? Hopefully though the city-view was from a cheated map as it appears that it's a very low population city and has way, WAY too many wonders to be a city in a regular game game.

	26-10-2001 01:10									#3
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It could be better, there's no doubt, but I'm not complaining (much). It's very tricky mixing in ancient, medieval, industrial and modern graphics.

I'm more concerned about the banks with the drive-up windows in the Renaissance and the "ancient" wooden courthouse with white painted windows.

	26-10-2001 01:15									#4
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You mention Civ1 + 2. Civ1 was fine, but the Civ2 city view was useless. I never even bothered to look at my wonderful cities. They effectively removed the cityview from Civ2 as far as I'm concerned.

	26-10-2001 01:15									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

I agree also. That looks quite stupid with all the empty space. I really hope that is a low-population city. I didn't like Civ2 city view either, maybe because big cities looked like small villages. Civ1 had a good city view, I liked that. I also liked the marching animation(s) when you captured a city.

	26-10-2001 01:29									#6
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But...this screen has absolutely no bearing on gameplay, it's just for cosmetic and flavor. So who care what it looks like since no gameplay decisions are made from it? IMO, it's just another example of Firaxis wasting time on needless art when such resources could have gone into gameplay issues.

	26-10-2001 01:31									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark But...this screen has absolutely no bearing on gameplay, it's just for cosmetic and flavor. So who care what it looks like since no gameplay decisions are made from it? IMO, it's just another example of Firaxis wasting time on needless art when such resources could have gone into gameplay issues.

^ What he said.

	26-10-2001 01:38									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

This is like Uber arguing vehemently that the color the Jaguar Warrior's underwear was wrong.

	26-10-2001 01:53									#9
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Um, this shot is kinda old---from the preview video for the LE. And more recent city shots of even the ancient city showed every tile filled with buildings. This was just a test shot.

Cheers.

	26-10-2001 01:55									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark But...this screen has absolutely no bearing on gameplay, it's just for cosmetic and flavor. So who care what it looks like since no gameplay decisions are made from it? IMO, it's just another example of Firaxis wasting time on needless art when such resources could have gone into gameplay issues.

Well, if they are gonna waste their time with city building art, they should at least do it right.

Good thing it has no effect on gameplay.

	26-10-2001 01:56									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Um, this shot is kinda old---from the preview video for the LE. And more recent city shots of even the ancient city showed every tile filled with buildings. This was just a test shot. Cheers.

I suspected this and wanted to post my guess but I wasn't sure.

It's funny how so many criticisms here are based on misunderstood or false information.

	26-10-2001 01:59									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark But...this screen has absolutely no bearing on gameplay, it's just for cosmetic and flavor. So who care what it looks like since no gameplay decisions are made from it? IMO, it's just another example of Firaxis wasting time on needless art when such resources could have gone into gameplay issues.

IMHO IF it is a main city view in a real game (not a "just for screenshot" mock-up) it will probably show an "half backed" result of a mandatory in modern games Firaxis effort not good enough for modern standard.

But, really, I don't want to start another thread about "graphics vs. text only" I'm already tired of it, sure you are too, Steve

	26-10-2001 02:15									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith IMHO IF it is a main city view in a real game (not a "just for screenshot" mock-up) it will probably show an "half backed" result of a mandatory in modern games Firaxis effort not good enough for modern standard. But, really, I don't want to start another thread about "graphics vs. text only" I'm already tired of it, sure you are too, Steve

Oh yeah, but I had to get in one last cynical slam before we move to the Civ3-Strategy forum and discuss things that really matters.

	26-10-2001 02:32									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Um, this shot is kinda old---from the preview video for the LE. And more recent city shots of even the ancient city showed every tile filled with buildings. This was just a test shot. Originally posted by Pembleton It's funny how so many criticisms here are based on misunderstood or false information.

Well, I'm glad to hear that this may be an 'old' screenshot, and I really hope you guys are right about that. I'm not one to criticise just for the sake of finding fault, and I'll be only too happy if the real game shows well-filled cities!

I agree with others who've posted here that the city view is a minor matter of eye-candy compared with the really important issues of game-play; but I would also echo Akron's comment that "if they are gonna waste their time with city building art, they should at least do it right"!

	26-10-2001 02:46									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Also, although we will find for sure in less than a week, the large modern buildings may be some sort of wonder - like the pyramids or hanging gardens. It looks out of place enough like these other large structures.

	26-10-2001 02:51									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov More recent city shots of even the ancient city showed every tile filled with buildings.

Could someone tell me where these more recent city shots can be found?? I've tried looking here at ACS without success...

	26-10-2001 03:56									#17
	Remove this text

If that is what modern cities end up like, I'll be pissed, but I don't think thats final.

	26-10-2001 03:58									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

eyecandy is shit.

	26-10-2001 04:02									#19
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Uber, watch that swearing , MarkG probably doesn't care about your 'protests'


Anyway, the no anti-aliasing leaves me to believe that even the city view can be edited.

	26-10-2001 04:12									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark IMO, it's just another example of Firaxis wasting time on needless art when such resources could have gone into gameplay issues.

Nooooo. Art is not needless. It creates the atmosphere. Atmosphere is one half of the appeal of civgames. Otherwise, you could just crunch numbers on a black-and-white computer screen. Pure gameplay!

[for once passionately defending Firaxis]

	26-10-2001 04:16									#21
	Re: Modern city view VERY disappointing! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Ilkuul Anyone else feel the same?

I agree. At least in past Civ games, the "empty" spaces were filled with resdiential housing! A large modern city would have a lot of housing structures for its citizenry.

	26-10-2001 04:17									#22
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i like the city view. it's eye candy, and i won't use it TOO much though. unless they bring back the city view animations from civ1, those were cool. but not necessary.

	26-10-2001 04:21									#23
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Sheesh, what an awful display of pedantry I am witnessing here. It looks fine. Central Park sits right next to a bunch of skyscrapers, or Hyde Park to the major shopping centre of London, for example. For goodness sake, if you are really looking this deep for problems, you really do have a sad existence

I think it looks fine, it appears to be a picture of a prominent but small city...

	26-10-2001 04:24									#24
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX eyecandy is shit.

Then how come there were tons of arguements complaining that borders cut through mountains and the forests looked ugly? Or that the mountains don't have snow caps and don't look realistic.

"I hate eye candy...I want Civ3 with ASCII art !!!"

	26-10-2001 04:29									#25
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All that blank space is for the Wonders that I'm going to build in my capital. I never build Wonders in any other city.

	26-10-2001 04:56									#26
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Last edited by Inverse Icarus on 26-10-2001 at 05:11

	26-10-2001 05:53									#27
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Uber, what was the point of that?

I think that an animated gif of a nuclear attack would look much better, especially if it used the Civ III graphics engine and was used against a city built with the Civ III graphics engine.

	26-10-2001 05:57									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Lorizael, what are you trying to do?! Give Uber a challenge!?!

	26-10-2001 06:02									#29
	Tired of ads?

Since Uber got unbanned, he's been increasingly... how do I put it... childish.

I got banned for a week after only being registered (in reality) for four days! And I'm fine now!

	26-10-2001 06:18									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I think that the tall buildings must be the small wonder Wall Street