26-10-2001 16:53									#1
	Why do tanks need rubber (strategic resource)? Increase the size of your Attachments

This one specific thing just keeps puzzling me, because I'm not a tank specialist.
Why is rubber required for building tanks? Is there a logical reason for this?

	26-10-2001 16:59									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

if you watch the movie Saving Private Ryan you know why rubber is that important.
Every tank has 'tires' (I don't know how to name it in english)
and if you 'destroy' these 'tires' (like in SPR) the tank is useless.

no rubber, no tanks.

	26-10-2001 17:09									#3
	Got spare money?

do you mean the tanks tracks?

	26-10-2001 17:14									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

um kinda. well i guess they do not really need rubber but what would have been something extra that they would require so as to make them less readily availiable.
rubber was a strategic resource in WW2. i know germans had to switch to strategic variant.
try thinking about tanks as you do about mech divisions. they have not only tanks in them but many support vehicles. and they all need rubber.

	26-10-2001 17:21									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

IIRC tank tracks aren't made of rubber they are metal plates, that's why they don't drive on normal roads it would ruin the surface of the road.

	26-10-2001 17:26									#6
	bogie wheels Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

A tank's tread rolls on what are usually called "bogie wheels" -- you know, all those 8+ wheels on each side of the tank. The wheels would be on the ground if the 'track' (aka tank 'tread') was not there.

The wheels may be made of metal, but where they make contact with the track is lined with rubber. Sort of a permanent 'tire' on each wheel, I would guess 2 or 3 inches thick.

During World War II, Japan quickly conquered the vast majority of rubber producing areas in the whole world. Fortunately, "synthetic rubber" was invented by the Allies before stockpiles ran out.
I suppose the invention of synthetic substances isn't covered too well in Civ3.

	26-10-2001 17:27									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well thats what i thought too. I don't actually care if tank needs rubber or not as civilization is not a simulation. It's just a game balance thing to make game more fun.

	26-10-2001 17:35									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The fact that units need resources is going to make the whole experience so much more interesting...

And as LaRusso stated, there are support vehicles. Each unit in Civ represents a battallion/division IRL.

	26-10-2001 17:36									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by LaRusso rubber was a strategic resource in WW2. i know germans had to switch to strategic variant. try thinking about tanks as you do about mech divisions. they have not only tanks in them but many support vehicles. and they all need rubber.

Hopefully you don't mind, LaRusso, but I'll have to
add that the rubber problem was a significant
problem also for Luftwaffe, and not only Wehrmacht.
But anyway, you're right large that Panzergruppe's need
large supply convoys (and also air protection).
That was one of the reasons for the setback in
Stalingrad.

	26-10-2001 19:22									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Has anyone here ever worked on a car? Apparently not.

If you want to know why a tank needs rubber, then pop open the hood on any car you find and you'll notice a few rubber things in there such as...

Hoses
Gaskets
Belts
Seals

You still need rubber to have a decent engine and without an engine a tank would have a very hard time moving across the street much less the thousands of miles they might have to move to attack or defend some area.

The reasons listed are also more than likely why you need rubber for mass transit as well.

I guess some people thought tanks moved by magic?

	26-10-2001 19:26									#11
	Got spare money?

In practical terms, Firaxis made it so that tanks would require rubber because tanks are a powerful unit in the game, and they wanted to make it hard to make.

Anyone agree?

	26-10-2001 19:50									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

I agree (FWIW).

	26-10-2001 19:51									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin In practical terms, Firaxis made it so that tanks would require rubber because tanks are a powerful unit in the game, and they wanted to make it hard to make. Anyone agree?

I agree. "Rubber" could be replaced with "The Strategical Resource Needed To Build Wheeled Industrious and Modern Units" and it would make no difference.

	26-10-2001 20:01									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

To Jason Beaudoin: You are right. As the resources oil and rubber appears very late in the game, it can turn the complete game. IMO is it good for gameplay.

	26-10-2001 20:08									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

That, my friends, is an example of how Civ3 can avoid the "inevitable winner" syndrome.

	26-10-2001 23:03									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

But I like the inevitable winner syndrome!

	26-10-2001 23:07									#17
	Rubber=Tanks Got spare money?

Actually, I have to agree with rubber being required for tanks - mainly because you would need rubber not for the tracks per se, but for the various gaskets/seals required for the engine and actual workings of the tank itself.

	27-10-2001 01:21									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

You might need rubber for 'protection'

	27-10-2001 01:27									#19
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by down th' pub You might need rubber for 'protection'

	27-10-2001 01:39									#20
	Re: bogie wheels Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Fortunately, "synthetic rubber" was invented by the Allies before stockpiles ran out. I suppose the invention of synthetic substances isn't covered too well in Civ3.

Actually, synthetic parts (or something that sounds like that) is the prereq for Modern Tanks. Maybe that means it doesn't require rubber. We'll see anyway.

	27-10-2001 02:01									#21
	Got spare money?

Actually it's 'synthetic fibres' (AFAIR) and as the 'Modern Tank' unit is really an American Abrams M1/M1A it's probably because of the synthetic compounds used to make the armour for the tank more than the rubber.

Is it the Abrams or another tank like the Leopard which uses depleted uranium as armour plating ( non radioactive natch )

	27-10-2001 02:19									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Technically, you could make a tank without rubber. Specifially natural rubber is probably not the best material for a tank.

Chains could replace belts. Hoses could be made of metal. Gaskets could be made of plastic. Rubber is nice, but not a necessity.

However, like mentioned above, the tank needs a resource to depend on. I guess rubber got the role.

	27-10-2001 03:39									#23
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Faboba Actually it's 'synthetic fibres' (AFAIR) and as the 'Modern Tank' unit is really an American Abrams M1/M1A it's probably because of the synthetic compounds used to make the armour for the tank more than the rubber. Is it the Abrams or another tank like the Leopard which uses depleted uranium as armour plating ( non radioactive natch )

Yah, Synthetic fibers. Umm, IIRC the United States doesn't use depleted uranium for armor, the stuff is too dense.

However, the Abrams can fire sabbot rounds -- armor piercing rounds that are made of depleted uranium.

	27-10-2001 04:06									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

One thing I asked myself is: 'Why donīt they need iron?

	27-10-2001 04:57									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Faboba Actually it's 'synthetic fibres' (AFAIR) and as the 'Modern Tank' unit is really an American Abrams M1/M1A it's probably because of the synthetic compounds used to make the armour for the tank more than the rubber. Is it the Abrams or another tank like the Leopard which uses depleted uranium as armour plating ( non radioactive natch )

'Modern Tank' looks like an M1 Abrams but is just a Modern Tank.

It is NOT the armor plating that uses the depleted uranium. Depleted uranium (very dense material) is used in anti-armor ammunition. I don't remember for sure if it is used in tank rounds, but it is definitely used in the smaller caliber guns of modern armored infantry vehicles and the A-10 Warthog attack plane.

	27-10-2001 05:49									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Patriqvium I agree. "Rubber" could be replaced with "The Strategical Resource Needed To Build Wheeled Industrious and Modern Units" and it would make no difference.

That would be more challenging to draw than rubber, though

	27-10-2001 07:00									#27
	Increase the size of your Attachments

ANd it woudln't help at all with the 'protection' element!

	27-10-2001 07:08									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune One thing I asked myself is: 'Why donīt they need iron?

Because they use composites.
and do you know how mch it would be ridiculous to have tank production cease because your iron ore has been lost?

	27-10-2001 07:37									#29
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Jaybe 'Modern Tank' looks like an M1 Abrams but is just a Modern Tank. It is NOT the armor plating that uses the depleted uranium. Depleted uranium (very dense material) is used in anti-armor ammunition. I don't remember for sure if it is used in tank rounds, but it is definitely used in the smaller caliber guns of modern armored infantry vehicles and the A-10 Warthog attack plane.

Yes it is used in tank rounds and yes it is used in the armor also.

	27-10-2001 07:56									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy if you watch the movie Saving Private Ryan you know why rubber is that important. Every tank has 'tires' (I don't know how to name it in english) and if you 'destroy' these 'tires' (like in SPR) the tank is useless. no rubber, no tanks.

They are called tires in English too