26-10-2001 22:55									#1
	Can Armies Cross Oceans? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

A friend of mine just raised this very interesting question: can armies be loaded on ships and cross oceans?

I hope the answer is yes, provided the ship in question can carry the number of units in the army. For example, if triremes can only carry two units then they could not transport 3 unit or 4 unit (post-Pentagon) armies. But Galleons, with a higher capacity, could.

If the answer is no, then it would be extremely difficult to get an army to a continent you want to attack. You would have to establish a city on that continent (either take over one or found one in unclaimed territory), get a Great Leader to that city, and get all the units for forming the army into that city. All that would be very tough to do if you are under enemy fire!

	26-10-2001 23:04									#2
	Err... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I don't know for how long you have been playing CIV now, but I doubt they have abolished one of the most important features, namely the ship transportation of units

	26-10-2001 23:08									#3
	Re: Err... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion I don't know for how long you have been playing CIV now, but I doubt they have abolished one of the most important features, namely the ship transportation of units

Thanks for the flame - I've been playing Civ since 1991. I didn't ask whether all sea transport has been abolished - of course it hasn't. I'm wondering specifically about the rules for transporting Armies.

	26-10-2001 23:14									#4
	Re: Can Armies Cross Oceans? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by albiedamned A friend of mine just raised this very interesting question: can armies be loaded on ships and cross oceans? I hope the answer is yes, provided the ship in question can carry the number of units in the army. For example, if triremes can only carry two units then they could not transport 3 unit or 4 unit (post-Pentagon) armies. But Galleons, with a higher capacity, could. If the answer is no, then it would be extremely difficult to get an army to a continent you want to attack. You would have to establish a city on that continent (either take over one or found one in unclaimed territory), get a Great Leader to that city, and get all the units for forming the army into that city. All that would be very tough to do if you are under enemy fire!

Just ran a test to confirm that you can transport armies in ships. The one caveat is that the "army" unit (i.e., the now-infamous "flag dude") is apparently counted as a unit when calculating whether there is "room" on the transport.

Thus, you can't transport a full "pre-pentagon" army (4 units, counting the "flag dude") until you have a Galleon.

Dan

	26-10-2001 23:15									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I would have to say that yes, armies can board ships and cross the ocean - but only if the ship/transport in question can carry the number of units in the army. For example, a simple trireme could not transport an army, but a transport could.

Disreguard, Dan has answered the question. Thanks again Dan!

	26-10-2001 23:15									#6
	Support Apolyton

i doubt they overlooked this, and if they did, it'd be an easy fix.

dont' worry so much. :-)

or at least worry about important things.

	26-10-2001 23:18									#7
	Re: Re: Can Armies Cross Oceans? Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Just ran a test to confirm that you can transport armies in ships. The one caveat is that the "army" unit (i.e., the now-infamous "flag dude") is apparently counted as a unit when calculating whether there is "room" on the transport. Thus, you can't transport a full "pre-pentagon" army (4 units, counting the "flag dude") until you have a Galleon. Dan

Thanks for the info! Slightly unfortunate that the army unit itself counts against you, but I can live with it. I guess that means you won't realistically be transporting armies across oceans until Galleons, unless you want to build armies of 2 units. But that would be a waste of an army, since there is no way to add to or modify an army once it is created.

	26-10-2001 23:20									#8
	Put an end to popups!

No specific facts available here, but I would have to imagine your idea about ship capacity not being less than army size would be implemented to some extent. Another possibility: If military units can be merged to form armies, what might be done with transport units? Maybe two or three transports could be forced to travel as one to move a large army. What a naval target that would make.

	26-10-2001 23:23									#9
	Re: Re: Can Armies Cross Oceans? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Just ran a test to confirm that you can transport armies in ships. The one caveat is that the "army" unit (i.e., the now-infamous "flag dude") is apparently counted as a unit when calculating whether there is "room" on the transport. Thus, you can't transport a full "pre-pentagon" army (4 units, counting the "flag dude") until you have a Galleon. Dan

Who playtested this thing!?

I guess you can rationalized that an army (pre-pentagon) is made up of the three units plus support/command etc. that enable it to be an army, thus requiring the extra room.

Or you can fess up and say that it was overlooked in playtesting.

	26-10-2001 23:28									#10
	Re: Re: Re: Can Armies Cross Oceans? Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Stuie Who playtested this thing!? I guess you can rationalized that an army (pre-pentagon) is made up of the three units plus support/command etc. that enable it to be an army, thus requiring the extra room. Or you can fess up and say that it was overlooked in playtesting.

I'm fairly confident it was intentional -- from the looks of it it seems like it is designed to throttle back the reach of armies so that the first civ to get an army doesn't wipe everyone off the face of the earth with an army in a trireme

In any case, it's easy enough to alter transport capacity of units (and for that matter, armies) with the editor...


Dan

	26-10-2001 23:39									#11
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Yea armies are already powerful enough. So I'm glad we won't be able to transport armies with any of the early ships.

	26-10-2001 23:43									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Dan I know you can switch units in a Army, but can you upgrade the units in a Army. Also how diffcult is it to trade for another civ's army at the bargaining table. I hope the price is extremyly high.

	27-10-2001 00:27									#13
	Re: Re: Can Armies Cross Oceans? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS (i.e., the now-infamous "flag dude") Dan

What is this? Am I being mocked for my eccentric use of vernacular English? What did I do to deserve this?

PS- Ever figure out what the floating crunchy-style amphibian (reptile? ) sandwich's name is? (Don't worry I'll make sure I keep trying to think up more obscure and pointless questions to bother you with Dan )

	27-10-2001 00:45									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey, it makes sense to me. The flag bearer represents all the logistical support and organization needed to run an actual army.

Something I was wondering though... I know we can't switch units in and out of armies, but if a unit in an army dies can we put a new one in?

Joe

	27-10-2001 00:59									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ya... I think Dan got a real kick out of your Vonacular English Serapis!

I think he likes to use the "flag dude" quote.