26-10-2001 23:07									#1
	The *only* reviews I give any credence Tired of ads?

Are the reviews by players after the game has been out for a week or two. In particular, I read the negative reviews of the game.

Game magazines draw too much revenue from the game companies for their reviews to be considered unbiased, and they also don't get enough time to play and find flaws. I have been burned by glossy reviews too many times to buy *any* game again when it first comes out. This will include Civ3.

The only reviews that you can trust to not be a shill for the game company are the negative reviews from the players. I read these closely and see if the things that they don't like are things that would bother me.

For example, if players criticize the animations or the resolution, that's no big deal. If they criticize the lack of multiplayer, that's no big deal. If they can only nitpick about minor features, then that's a good thing!

But if they say it's too slow, it crashes or it bogs down in micromanagement, then I'll pay closer attention.

Buying Civ3 is not a done deal, but it's hard to imagine not buying it. It would take an almost universal slamming from the fan community, but I'll play wait'n'see for the first week.

	26-10-2001 23:41									#2
	Put an end to popups!

If you stick with major magazines they aren't too biased. The problem with fan reviews is that they are very biased and it's hard to tell how valuable the information is. One fan might like a game and blindly give it very high marks while another that doesn't like the game (or isn't really into the genre) might bash it even if the game is fairly good. The only way fan review is any good is if the fan has the same preferences as you (but it is hard to tell this). For example, you might value gameply over graphics but it is really hard to tell if a fan reviewer holds the same preference.

So I think magazine reviews are actually much better. At least the reviewers at magazines have experience and know what it is all about. My personal preferred sites are Gamespot, Desslocks' RPG page (RPG only), and AVault.

Having said this, if you are a fan of a genre, it is more important for you to pay attention to what is being said and not worry about the final score. THe little things that are said will make or break a game for you (if you are a fan of that genre).

KoalaBear33

	26-10-2001 23:58									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

i trust reviews of other players THAT I KNOW PERSONALLY. IE, If my friend Abe called me up and says "hey, you gotta try this game, you'd love it" i know i've got a winning game on my hands.

I don't trust some magazines, but one magazine that i DO trust is Computer Gaming World. . they are completely fair, and IMO, really get to what matters. They're not afraid to give harsh reviews and offend the developers. The games i've seen them mark high were GOOD games, but sometimes an issue comes out and NONE of the games get higher than 3/5 stars. So it's not like they have to give SOME games high reviews, to balance things out. they're my fav computer game magazine. .

	27-10-2001 00:09									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

For me it's already a done deal because of the reputation of Sid and Firaxis and all I've heard about the game. However, for those of you still unsure (heretics! ) I think you should listen to Apolytoners, friends and magazines. Here from the extreme pessimists like Yin to the extreme optimists, too. This way you will have a broad range of opinions before you get the game.

	27-10-2001 00:12									#5
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Here from the extreme pessimists like Yin to the extreme optimists, too. This way you will have a broad range of opinions before you get the game.

Well you won't be hearing anything that comes from first-hand expereience from Yin because he won't be buying the game until it's been almost or completely patched, and has MP. And this is not a Yin bash, just thought I'd let you know.

	27-10-2001 00:21									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'd trust anyone who gave Diablo2 x-pack and Black & White crappy reviews.

Anyone else simply falls for the hype game companies put out or else fall into the "lemming" crowd of going along with what everyone else says.

Oh, and I'd trust a review of hard-core fans of a series. Hard-core fan reviews plus a no question return policy at my local EB generally means I'll get a good game one way or another.

	27-10-2001 00:38									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I find "player" reviews to generally be idiotic and uninformed.

	27-10-2001 00:39									#8
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous I'd trust anyone who gave Diablo2 x-pack and Black & White crappy reviews. Anyone else simply falls for the hype game companies put out or else fall into the "lemming" crowd of going along with what everyone else says. Oh, and I'd trust a review of hard-core fans of a series. Hard-core fan reviews plus a no question return policy at my local EB generally means I'll get a good game one way or another.

I just liked the fact that D2 X-pack included 800x600. Everything else was a bonus. Well, obviously not entirely. And Black and White did suck horribly and I returned it the next day after I bought it.

But was wrong with the X-pack? The game was (and still is) horribly imbalanced in MP, but so was the original D2. It has its flaws, but I didn't think it was crappy *for what it was*.

If you just don't generally like "action RPGs", that's not really what I'm looking for. I want to know the criticism from someone who likes the genre, like myself.

	27-10-2001 00:44									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Pembleton Well you won't be hearing anything that comes from first-hand expereience from Yin because he won't be buying the game until it's been almost or completely patched, and has MP. And this is not a Yin bash, just thought I'd let you know.

Yah I know he won't get the game til later. BTW I'm not bashing Yin. I said extreme optimists too, I just couldn't think of any at the moment. I guess I would count as one.

	27-10-2001 00:48									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Yah I know he won't get the game til later. BTW I'm not bashing Yin. I said extreme optimists too, I just couldn't think of any at the moment. I guess I would count as one.

I've been optimistic for quite a long time, but now that the wait for the release is winding down, I'm getting a slight feeling of worry, because my expectations are so high.

I have felt let down in the past when I have high expectations. So now I'm trying to lower them. I think a lot of it has to do with the long wait I've had to endure as well. If the game disappointed in some way, it would be compounded that I had so many months and weeks to wait for a let-down.

	27-10-2001 01:15									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I always read the worst review before purchasing a game.

	27-10-2001 02:55									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ozymandous

that was the second time today that you bashed black & white, and D2: LoD
this is the civ3 forum! so if you are going to bash a game make sure you bash civ3 ok?

but i don't see what was so horribly wrong with LoD, and more than that pc.ign gave diablo2 less than steller reviews, and in the expansion review was something like: this is a great expansion and if you like diablo2 you'll love this, but if you hated D2 stay away

and they closed the review with this line: LoD is a good expansion, but i get this nagging feeling that everything in LoD should have been in D2

on top of that D2 and LoD have both been high selling games, for a very long period of time, so i don't see that all that many people actually agree with you...imo the worst thing about diablo2 is the economy is screwed up completely, that is why i only play hardcore, at least item sometimes get taken out of play

but as far as civ3 reviews go, check out all of the main review sites: pc.ign, gamespot, gamespy and then look at player reviews too

	27-10-2001 03:07									#13
	Remove this text

The best thing to do is:

1) read two or three game reviews (at Gamespot, Game Domain and Computer Gaming World);

2) check constantly with these forums. Even so, real gameplay issues won't surface until after the first week (once the initial "glow" of the game has passed) and serious gaming has taken place;

3) once the game has been released it will take weeks and weeks of dedicated playing to learn the strengths, weaknesses, and bugs in the game. Consider this period as the "open public beta test" that will help Firaxis with the up-coming patch.

I expect it to be a great game and I am eagerly waiting to hear what you all have to say about it.

	27-10-2001 04:52									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well ... I found out recently that the Korean version of the LE will be released here for something like $35! If that turns out to be true, it will be pretty hard to argue not to buy the game (whereas I was thought I'd have to have it shipped here for a total of something more like $80).

In other words, if I see the LE here in Korea for that price I will grab it. And while I understand why some people think I'm an extreme pessimist, I'm actually just a highly critical optimist ... I believe many things CAN be made better if we give feedback.

	27-10-2001 05:23									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ill wait until about 3 weeks after Civ 3 is initially released to get it. Not that im not sure it will be a decent game, from all indications Civ 3 is extremely polished and balanced!! It just doesnt come out in Australia til the 19th

And hey, if Yin recommends grabbing it, then it MUST be good

	27-10-2001 07:17									#16
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous I'd trust anyone who gave Diablo2 x-pack and Black & White crappy reviews. Anyone else simply falls for the hype game companies put out or else fall into the "lemming" crowd of going along with what everyone else says.

i beg to differ. there are some people who actually *like* games most people consider bad, especially newcomers to genres and the like. For example, say someone who hadn't played civ2 bought ctp2. Theyd think it was a pretty cool game, if they like that style of play. Sure, it might lose its luster a lot faster than other games, but theyd still give it a good review.

I am one, who actually enjoyed ctp1 completetly unmodified for months before returning to civ2 and starcraft. ANd most people thought it was horrible!

	28-10-2001 09:53									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

i loved diablo. i have a level 74 assasin.

black and white i didn't get into.

on the other hand, i may go back to diablo, but i'm not currently playing it right now.

but i DID play civ2 until about 3 or 4 in the morning this morning. that damn "one more turn" syndrome. (i've got the greeks on a huge map on a huge continents, and none of the other civs are NEAR me, so i'm already freaking huge. i'll really dominate in this game. i've met the americans so far, that's in. i'm just about to enter the "industrial age" and it's still about 800bc. i figure i'll reach alpha centauri in the 1600 or 1700's in this game. (it's just a normal game, not OCC or early landing challenge game. )