27-10-2001 01:28									#1
	Early Landing setup...very sweet Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This is an actual island that I "tweeked" alittle ..well alot.It truely is a civer's dream come true.
lets see how early you can land this paradise

deity/hoardes/7 civs/standard rules(restarts on)
3900bc
2 cities
2 nons(archer,chariot)

Attachment: indians3900bc.sav.zip
This has been downloaded 46 time(s).

	27-10-2001 02:15									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Naive question : which version
I've heard it was easier with a Mac and 2.42 than with MGE under W95

	27-10-2001 03:05									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

game started in 2.42.PC compatible.

MGE for mac is the same as for pc.Hostile ai blah blah.You can get barbs before turn 16 and very rarely they can sack your only city in the mac version of mge.

You should be safe from hostile ai in this one...for awhile anyway.

	27-10-2001 14:00									#4
	Re: Early Landing setup...very sweet Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Smash lets see how early you can land this paradise

I finish SG(2)'s large world first (hope to be able to launch today ).

	27-10-2001 16:34									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

ooh yes, that does look nice

I haven't really finished any OCC or early landing game successfully so far, I suck at strategies like those, since I'm playing in a way that promises most fun and interest for me, not high scores

unless I play in MP that is

	28-10-2001 01:07									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't think you can go for score and an early landing at the same time.At least I can't
I like the "occ with helper cites" plan and you don't score that well using that.Unless you launch a slow spaceship and do some "artificial" score building while it travels to AC.

I am blazing along in this one.I got a bunch of advancers early,which seems somehow unfair.I am using early Marco's and my goal is to have the 6 ais researching 6 different techs I don't have.We'll see how that endeavor pans out.

Attachment: 1ad.sav.zip
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	28-10-2001 04:45									#7
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I'm rather talking about success in general than score as such...

	29-10-2001 17:20									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Downloaded 17 times!

18 now...

Carolus

	31-10-2001 09:20									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I can't play Civ III for a month or two until I buy a new computer
So thanks for the entertainment in the mean time

	31-10-2001 11:26									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I have progressed to 500ad.I just traded for Feudalism on the road to Computers.I think I should have no problem landing before 1000ad.I expect,maybe,a pre 500 landing by someone!?...

Attachment: 500ad.sav.zip
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	31-10-2001 17:02									#11
	Not by me, that's for sure! Get a bigger avatar today!

I don't know where things went wrong... I'm in 880 AD, President with 9 or 10 cities (Delhi is size 21 only) and have 3 turn discoveries...

Went for Marco's first and did well in trading techs with the AI. Also got all the maps and started trading with caravans fairly early (but see remark below)...

Some things are obvious:

i) I missed out on Colossus: when I built one of the 300 shield wonders, an AI switched to Colossus and built it the next turn. That was very careless of me, I could have avoided it easily

ii) I spent three turns in anarchy when I switched to Republic (didn't know when to switch)

iii) I built too few coastal cities, didn't have enough ships for a perfect ship chain early on -> trading took more turns than it should have

I traded with the Germans at first. I have just reorganised the ship chain to reach the Chinese and the Aztecs (they have bigger cities).

Carolus [who will give this one a new try when the first one is over and done with]

	01-11-2001 05:54									#12
	the eagle has landed Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Arrival A/C 815 AD.15-3-3-1-1-1+Fusion.
Didn't have enough cities or time for anything faster.Hard to imagine too many turns could be saved but I will revise my estimate to between 600-700ad is possible.Perhaps sooner.
I did not explore the whole board for huts.There just wasn't time.But more tech from huts is possible.I got a lot of advancers and units but not so many techs.An agressive early explorer could knock some turns off.Maybe a few more with careful beaker and Marco's management.
I did pretty well with Marco's but not "fantastic".I went overboard I guess and killed the ai rates a little too much.It was good early but kinda dryed up after 1AD.The lot of them only researched 2 or 3 techs "on their own" after 1AD.


I was capable of 2 techs per turn(with freight) since at least 500ad iirc.Still capable now..or was..haven't done science for awhile to raise gold for fake score building -bored

Attachment: end.sav.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	01-11-2001 16:57									#13
	Another eagle has landed! Increase the size of your Attachments

But eons after Smash...

Launched a 15-3-3-1-1-1 ship without fusion in 1610 AD, estimated arrival 1631 AD...

Huts? I only popped the ones at home...

New try coming up!

Carolus

	02-11-2001 21:39									#14
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My Lord Smash,

Thanks for sharing this great map. What great fun!!! Until, that is, you posted 1ad.sav.

I hang my head in shame and lift up my eyes in awe at your great skill and knowledge. ( Realizing I know nothing about early Republic). I would be forever grateful if you could enlighten me as to how to get these results:

1) 23 in SSC
2) all those improvements in SSC
3) all those Wonders

What is the method by which all three are achieved?? When did you switch to Republic?? Did you deliver and buy WOW's rather than using camels directly for building WOW?? My mind is combusting with questions and ideas......

Probably too much to expect you to post multiple saves but that would be really cool. Also, what is the philosopy behind not growing the supporter cities, too?? Eager to learn.

	02-11-2001 23:50									#15
	Support Apolyton

well you just made the X-mas card list

23 in SSC-Shake's Theatre is the main reason.We love days in Republic and thats it.
I rush buy everything in SSC.
Wonders are built with caravans.Each turn since Trade I incrementally rush caravans in almost every city.It takes at most, 5 or 6 turns for a camel when producing 5 sheilds.They pile up pretty quick.
In 1ad I have just begun the overseas trading process.I don't have that many routes.I traded between SSC and Cap early but all other camels went for wonders.I want to get that out of the way ASAP so I can dedicate resources to science.
I can't remember when I switched to Republic.925,825 or 725 bc.Around there.Right after Mich's.
I got 3 or 4 advancers and a nomad iirc.That goes along way.Its fast to slap down cities with all the rivers.The Advancers are always one square out,but each one saves oodles of turns.Thats why I said it seemed unfair.Too much luck....although results can be manipulated somewhat.
Marcos was very good for early techs.At 1ad i have 34 techs.I gaurantee I did not research them all.Just the white ones.

I build up cities 1 or 2 at a time.Most important is SSC.Then capitol(if different city) or another site with high trade potential.All other cities have to manage as best they can building cargo until their turn to build up comes...if it does at all.My goal is to deliver as many camels,trucks as possible.Smaller cities are easy to keep content without alot of infastructure.A city needs infastructure to maintain a large content citizenry.At this point,there is not enough gold to buy all the buildings carte blanche....yet.Almost all of my cities will get a market and maybe temple.Markets will be built as soon as no more commodities are available in that city.By then I should have gold to help finish them.

so..the SSC does the bulk of the research.The cap or high trade city gives it good routes and a fair amount of science.Everything else provides the caravans and settlers needed to do all the hard work.An eliteist society with many serfs

My order is something like this:
ssc-buy here first
cap/2nd trade city-buy here second
scroll thru and incrementally buy caravans
scroll thru and buy up markets with remaining funds

also because of the isolated island I can almost completely neglect defense.

	03-11-2001 01:15									#16
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quote: [SIZE=1] My order is something like this: ssc-buy here first cap/2nd trade city-buy here second scroll thru and incrementally buy caravans scroll thru and buy up markets with remaining funds

So is mine,
but I have been busy testing ' twin cities' and haven't started your wonder island yet.

	03-11-2001 02:15									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

[QUOTE] [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Smash
I can't remember when I switched to Republic.925,825 or 725 bc.Around there.Right after Mich's.

Thanks much for the very helpful summary, Smash. Can you recall the order of Wonder discoveries?? My effort had the Chappel much later IIRC, due to serious competition from the AI for HG and Col.

	03-11-2001 03:57									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yes i don't do well recording stuff.I start out alll gung ho..going record everything..but somewhere around turn 30 or so i lose patiance.I sure wish there some kind of in game history.Oh well..

hmm...lets see..I'm pretty sure my first wonder was The Collosus.Yes it was.Then Marco's.Both of these were finished by 1500 bc..I think.By then I had exceeded the riot factor limit thingy and rushed 4 caravan asap and built The Gardens.
Next I went for Mich's.Thinking about it I seem to remember going Republic in 1025bc...Not sure though...I did not go the Philosopher King route right away.I did trade after Monarchy.Then I think I was able to trade for Myst,Lit,Writing and Poly.That left just Philosophy for Mono.
Then I went back to the SSC wonders.I was able to trade for masonry and math.Boom..there was Astronomy.Then using Marco's I managed to get the ai to either research University,or they got it from a hut.Then a quick trade and on to Gravity.Next i think was a trade for The Wheel and Engineering.That left me with Medicine and Sanitation to do myself.Somewhere along the line I traded for The Republic.Basically I gifted any tech an ai was researching and maybe a certain pre-req.Then checked what they chose.Repeat if needed.
In the 1ad save I will trade the Chinese for Bridge Bulding.Aztecs will get it form Great Library.I will gift to the Greeks.That will clear those 2 for a new tech.The others are researching Economics(2 civs) and Fuedalism.If one gets Economics first, I trade and gift to the other.If I get it first I gift to both.If I should get Feudal before the other,then I gift..etc
While all this was going on,I have a dozen or so cities incrementally buying caravans.Every last piece of gold.Deliver 1 or 2 internally..for some more gold.I only had a little worry with The Gardens.I had to jack taxes to make it.Thats another thing I'll do.I'll raise taxes if i'm broke to build something asap.Like discovering University doesn't help me until I build one.Better to take 1 or 2 turns science hit and get it built and into play faster.

	04-11-2001 01:42									#19
	Somebody, please kick my butt real hard! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Two incomprehensible mistakes...

My second try was better, but:

i) I made a giant blunder in the end. While waiting for Superconductor I picked random techs. Then, after two techs and it still wasn't available in the list, I realised it wasn't showing because I didn't have all the pre-requisites... Still, had I not messed up the end, I was only looking at a mid 1500 landing, which brings me to mistake number two:

ii) I assume you used Bombay for the SSC, Smash? In both my tries I built the SSC in the capitol...

Often in my SP games, I try to find the perfect SSC site for my capitol. Well in this game, by habit, I used the capitol Delhi... I couldn't understand what was so sweet about that site...

And guess what? It was not until after my second try that I found myself thinking "Hm, maybe I should build the palace in Bombay next try, since it has so much trade potential?"... It didn't occur to me that I could go ahead even without a palace there first... I have built the SSC in the capitol so many times (although making sure that it has trade specials) that I went on auto pilot in this game...

Can you spell I-D-I-O-T, CR?

My only defense is that I have played both attempts at night (one ended 5 AM)...

Carolus

	04-11-2001 05:04									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

hehehe..yes it will be tough to get Superconductor without The Laser for example.

Normally my cap is my ssc also.Since this was an early landing freindly enviroment,I set it up to have the 2nd city as an SSC.For the order in which cities contribute beakers thing.As long as the SSC isn't the first or last city built,it counts at least second.That way some small crappy city can finish the beaker box after freights and the SSC beakers are not wasted.
I'm sure you'll do better with it as your SSC.

	04-11-2001 05:27									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

yeah, I played a bit around that game today... I've never done one of those extra-success-big-ass-early-landing games though, so I just made one of my fun games out of it... managed to make Delhi an SSC though, with an optimum of 2 turns/tech... I know it#s pathetic and you guys get things done like 5 techs/turn, especially on a map like that but hey, it was quite successful for my dimensions.... ans when the game got boring in the 2nd half of the 19th century, I quit... could have started constructing the spaceship then, just couldn't be arsed... I had 13 cities in the end. any more questions?

	05-11-2001 13:05									#22
	Third attempt is looking good! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Wish I could claim all the credit, but I got three ( ) advanced tribes! Checked the calender, but it wasn't December 24th...

Monarchy by 2650 BC, Bombay at size 21 with all the science wonders in BC... It's now 280 AD and I have 10 cities...

But,

With whom did you trade in the end game, Smash? Many of the AI civs' cities are not coastal cities (look at the Zulus) and hence difficult to reach fast, the Chinese are too close (so are the Germans?), the Aztecs are decimated in this game by barbs (got only two, small cities)...

Gotta print out (yet another!) timetable for Oedo years (haven't switched to demo yet), since I messed up government change in the earlier tries!

Think I can squeeze in a pre 1000 AD landing in this one!

Carolus

	05-11-2001 14:21									#23
	Got spare money?

I started with the Chinese and later lengthened the chain to Azteca.Both had coastal or 1 square in cities.The Chinese were nice enough to build a handy fort within reach of Beijing.An Aztec city too long to type out located at 77,75 received the bulk of the freight.That chain was nice as I had access to 9 different cites and their different demands.All of the Aztec cities were repeaters for this and that throughout the game.Alot of silk and wine iirc.

	06-11-2001 15:52									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's now 840 AD and I'm one turn away from Space Flight. This means I won't make it before 1000 AD...

A couple of questions:

i) Helper cities

Infrastructure and size; which improvements do you build? Mine only have temples (and their sizes range from 4 to 8), then they build nothing but caravans/freights. Should they be bigger? I never managed to get two advances per turn, there always was a tiny bit of beakers missing. Maybe libraries, marketplaces and even superhighways would have made the difference?

ii) Food caravans

Do you use the trick described above by Xin Yu and Edward to get rid of them? I haven't used it.

iii) The tech tree

At one point I had only crappy tech choices (including Communism) + Flight. I picked Flight. Later on, I only had crappy tech choices and went for Communism which I knew the Chinese had (traded with them immediately). Should I have picked Communism instead of Flight the first time to prolong the effect of Colossus? Do you ever manage to have Colossus active + have Superhighways + a research center (if it is possible to climb the tech tree that way) in the SSC?

iv) The space ship

To fusion power or not to fusion power it, that is the question... Also, which configuration do you strive for?

Carolus

Last edited by Carolus Rex on 06-11-2001 at 16:02

	06-11-2001 17:06									#25
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i-Most size 8.Some size 12.1>6 size whatever they can reach.Kinda like this:size 8 with Mich's and markets,routes>size 12 with temples and JSB-beyond with pretty much the works favoring financial stuff first.Libraries here and there.Same for superhighways.Not every city.
I've been thinking about using the Oracle instead of JSB.JSB is a safe way but Theology could be dropped...never know when the ai is gonna do Theology on you.Could tech bomb them and kill their research,but then you lose a civ for barter....more humming and hawing needed for me..

You're very close so a few more things here and there would do it.Without rehoming it helps to have several large cities that bring in large bonus.I pick repeaters for these if possible.Trade arrow potential is #1 though.

ii-no.I had lots of cities and as long as I keep delivering I always seem to have lots.My big cities were almost never without something to build.Nothing done by me consciously.

iii-most definetly pick Commie.Once you are able to get at least 1 tech per turn you will get "crappy" choices.Never take Flight Before Computers..so yes I have the lot going..not usually research lab for more than 1 turn unless "crappy" choice.

iv-depends on the # of cites.either 15-1-1-1-1-1 or 15-2-2-1-1-1 or 15-3-3-1-1-1 or17-4-4-1-1-1 or 20-5-5-1-1-1.Whatever I can build in 1 or 2 turns max..with or without Fusion when turns are still more than 2 years.

	06-11-2001 22:19									#26
	Thanks! Enter the AD-FREE zone

You actually build JSB? I avoid Theology all together as it is a dead end tech. Maybe this (i.e. building it or not) is dependent on the number of cities that you have? I only have ten in my third try and have to economise on what I build. Maybe more cities are better?

Hm... Regarding delaying Flight; that's what I thought! And I wouldn't expect a research center + Colossus active + Superhighways to last too long either... I just never seemed to get it in (since I always favoured picking Flight too early it seems)...

What about WLTCD/WLTPD? How many "sessions" of cranking up the luxuries do you use to grow your cities? If I switch to republic after MC, then I often am successful in growing the SSC to size 12 in a single "session". Then I use a second one after Shake and the sewer system is built. Sometimes, though, I need three sessions... Do you raise taxes to get money to rushbuy city improvements while growing or do you max science?

Carolus

	06-11-2001 22:27									#27
	Fusion power? Suffering from ads?

I assume that you mean "no fusion power" if turns are ten years and "fusion power" if turns are two years?

Isn't this tantamount to saying "no fusion power", since you probably launch before 1750 AD in all your games?

Carolus

	07-11-2001 03:54									#28
	Why and how Remove this text

Carolus
I don't wish to add anything to the replies given by smash to your questions ii, iii, and iv. Apart from a detail (the size of the bigger ship being 21, 5, 5, 1, 1, 1 IIRC), they might be exactly mine.

Question i (size of helper cities) is more delicate. In fact i am far from sure that there is any definite optimum. Some people (ICS oriented) build many cities small size without any improvement inside, others (OCC oriented) build few big cities and also get nice results. I used to build few cities size 6 to 8 and am now studying twin cities (which means one fat city apart from the SSC).

IMO the optimum is linked to the map (size, landmasses, huts, terrain,...).

	07-11-2001 14:04									#29
	AC... Increase Your PM Length

...in 1121 AD.

I had a 15-3-3-1-1-1 ship (without fusion power) ready in 1100 and was one turn away from discovering fusion power.

I launched directly to shave off four years.

Carolus

	08-11-2001 14:12									#30
	Re: AC... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex ...in 1121 AD. Carolus

'Hej, hej, Carolus' ropar alla flickorna i smaaland.