27-10-2001 16:13									#1
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This is not a question of who it should be, but of who it is.

The screenshots say Britain and British, and many people have refered to a British civ. However the official civ of the week listing is English.

So is it a hybrid, or is it definitely one or the other?

Do we know for sure yet?

	27-10-2001 16:41									#2
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oh well, it should be English

honestly, when I read the thread title I thought you wanted a historical debate... now that you say it I have no idea... I think the screenshots are of different age, so the programmers might have changed it in the meantime or something like that.. who knows... and who cares, the first thing I'm going to do is changing the files, just after my first game

	27-10-2001 17:21									#3
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Big Crunch

Although it is not true, in most American's mind British and English are synonymous. Did you create your avatar to illustrate this confusion or is that an actual flag?

	27-10-2001 18:15									#4
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he did it to troll me in the OT

*kills Gothmog*

*while falling down from the wall/house/whatever, gothmog takes Ecthelion with him*

*both Ecthelion and Gothmog die*

*battle of Gondolin is lost though*

	27-10-2001 21:29									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Gothmog Although it is not true, in most American's mind British and English are synonymous.

Does that mean that Firaxis should propagate the myth?

If you call an Englishman, English or British, he won't mind, BUT there is a distinction just like there is between calling him a European or an Englishman.

	27-10-2001 23:05									#6
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quote: BUT there is a distinction just like there is between calling him a European or an Englishman.

Unless they managed to attach some very big motors to their island and sail away they're Europeans, too. I see what you mean though (You don't walk down the streets of Europe calling everyone Europeans normally).

	27-10-2001 23:58									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Christantine The Great Unless they managed to attach some very big motors to their island and sail away they're Europeans, too. I see what you mean though (You don't walk down the streets of Europe calling everyone Europeans normally).

If you have civ "the English" you would not refer to the nation as Britain just as you would not refer to it as Europe. English is a subset, something that is English is also British (and is also European), but the reverse is not true. Just ask any Scot!!!!!

	28-10-2001 03:10									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch Does that mean that Firaxis should propagate the myth?

No, I'm for accuracy. The sad part is that Firaxis is clueless about many of these issues. I hope they write their computer code better than they do history.

	28-10-2001 13:34									#9
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If somebody are interested in this, I believe that some time ago, somebody opened a thread with the same topic

	28-10-2001 19:25									#10
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quote: Originally posted by kIndal If somebody are interested in this, I believe that some time ago, somebody opened a thread with the same topic

I posted in both of them.

This thread is different, just, as it is a discussion of who is in as opposed to who should be in.

	28-10-2001 20:34									#11
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Big Crunch: Is your avatar English or British?

	28-10-2001 21:33									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf Big Crunch: Is your avatar English or British?

Yes it is.

	29-10-2001 01:48									#13
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I love your avatar... how it removes the Irish cross, then the Scottish one until all that is left is the cross of St. George. Kind of like... an Act of Disunion.

	29-10-2001 10:13									#14
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I have no idea why but people just can't seem to figure out the difference between someone who is English and someone who is British. I've been trying to correct this everytime I see it but I think I've been pissing into the wind on this one.

	29-10-2001 17:32									#15
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It doesn't help that the English themselves confuse the issue by using the terms "English" and "British" interchangably.
To most people in England they are one and the same idea, because the rest of Britian (Wales, Scotland and Norhtern Ireland) don't count, presumeably!

For me (a Scot) I feel more Scottish than British. I don't identify myself with the British flag, National Anthem or Royal Family, despite growing up with them.

I don't even know what the "official" Scottish National Anthem is supposed to be! It's the popular song "Flower of Scotland" as far as I am concered (you know the one everyone sings at football matches!).

	29-10-2001 18:43									#16
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I think the Civ3 civilisation is the English.

I don't think that Britishness is very common. People see themselves as English, Scottish, Welsh rather than as Brits.

The UK is officially the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So are the Northern Irish Brits, they aren't in Great Britain. Or is British a term for United Kingdomish?

	29-10-2001 23:38									#17
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Err... English people are from England (Angleterra), while British people are from Britain (which contains England, among other things). Poor Oerdin.

	29-10-2001 23:55									#18
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quote: It doesn't help that the English themselves confuse the issue by using the terms "English" and "British" interchangably. To most people in England they are one and the same idea, because the rest of Britian (Wales, Scotland and Norhtern Ireland) don't count, presumeably!

Nope, the English get hett up about this, just not as much as the Scots and Welsh - and I've never heard an Englishman use Britain when he meant just England.

	30-10-2001 00:18									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Gothmog Big Crunch Although it is not true, in most American's mind British and English are synonymous. Did you create your avatar to illustrate this confusion or is that an actual flag?

His avatar shows a British Union Jack being turned into an English flag. The English flag has a red Saint Michal's cross (a plus sign essentially) on a white background and the Scottish flag has a white Saint Andrew's cross (an X) on a blue background. The Union Jack was made by combining the two flags.

	30-10-2001 00:24									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Kedryn Err... English people are from England (Angleterra), while British people are from Britain (which contains England, among other things). Poor Oerdin.

Kedryn,
You are a settler so I guess I will forgive you however Crunch and I have both explained these matter before on different posts. Being half Scottish I often have to correct people (mostly Americans) who continually use the term English when they really should be saying British.

	30-10-2001 00:27									#21
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I changed it recently. I had this flag at the time of that post. (Which is a Navy ensign I believe)

Attachment: unkg003.gif
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	31-10-2001 23:50									#22
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I've often thought the Welsh would be mightily peeved about not being represented on the Union Flag. I suppose it all boils down to the act of union between England and Wales. Wales has always been regarded as the lesser part of the UK, and the closest relation to England.

I think a lesson might be in order If anyone has all 5 flags (Union, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) then please post them for those that are confused

D

	01-11-2001 00:01									#23
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It would be difficult to sneak that dragon into the union flag.

	01-11-2001 00:09									#24
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Wales

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	01-11-2001 00:11									#25
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Scotland

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	01-11-2001 00:16									#26
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Northern Ireland

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	01-11-2001 05:34									#27
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None of these flags fully explain the red X in the Union Jack.
Or is this 'X' a way of fitting the N. Irish cross into the U.J.?

	01-11-2001 06:08									#28
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When I was last in Washington DC and chatting to the hotel check-in clerk, he asked me 'are you English or British?'. I'm Australian.

	02-11-2001 00:07									#29
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quote: Originally posted by oriel94 When I was last in Washington DC and chatting to the hotel check-in clerk, he asked me 'are you English or British?'. I'm Australian.

Strange whenever I'm in America they think I'm an Aussie!.

One exception, some waitress in Montana thought I was German. She congratulated me on my excellent use of English.

	02-11-2001 00:33									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf None of these flags fully explain the red X in the Union Jack. Or is this 'X' a way of fitting the N. Irish cross into the U.J.?

The cross saltire of St Patrick is a diagonal red cross on a white ground.