30-04-2000 02:56									#1
	Research: If anybody finds anything about Uzbekistan Tired of ads?

... please tell me. Pictures and maps are especially helpful. I'm going to create a scenario about the rise and decadence of the Uzbek Shaibanid dynasty (1500-1598).
If you're going to look for something (I haven't found anything useful on the net), that would be appreciated (again, more maps and pictures rather than historical infos, of which I have enough).
Here are a couple of keywords to get you started:
Uzbekistan
Shaibanids
Safavids
Khorassan
Abu'l Khair
Muhammad Shaibani
Merv, battle of
Samarqand
Bokhara
Tashkent
Timurids

Thanks in advance!

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	30-04-2000 03:22									#2
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How about those?

- http://www.uzbekistan.org/
- http://www.soros.org/uzbkstan.html
- http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/uz.html

I haven't really checked them out thorougly but thet look nice.

	30-04-2000 03:43									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

If the scenario starts in 1500 won't the said area be into control of the three mongol khantes of the time. Tamerlanes Ilkhan empire, Jagatais Turkestan empire and Batu Khans Kipchak (Golden Horde) empire?

I sent you an e-mail. Did you get it?
If not here it is.
I need to know how big you want that map and if there are special terrains involved that need to be taken into consideration?

By the way, I think the capitol of the ancient Uzbeks was at Urgenj, located just south of the Aral sea. I am not fully sure on this though...

	30-04-2000 17:11									#4
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WarVoid: I got your mail, but just after I posted this message, I had a computer problem. It didn't go into Windows

Urgenj... an oasis in the desert, makes sense. I know the Shaibanid capitals were Samarqand and Bokhara.
I will cover the fall of the Timurid empire (Ilkhanate), but I'm not sure of the other khanates. I will have Kazakhs in it though. A little bit tough, it's hard finding infos about Central Asia.

Hendrik: Thanks for the links. They are very helpful.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


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	02-05-2000 06:03									#5
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Urgenj - Modern Urgench, major city in the Kara Kalpak Republic, part of modern Uzbekistan.

I think you could have the following civs.

Uzbeks (Nomads) - Capitol at Urgenj
Turkmens (Khanate of Jagatai) Cap. at Almaligh
Moghuls (Khanate of India) Cap. at Delhi
Kakakhs (Nomads) Cap. at Balassaghun
Kipchaks (Golden Horde) Cap. at Sarai
Ilkhans (Timur the Lames empire) Cap. at Tabriz

Maybe
Tibet
Sibir (khanate)
Georgia (khanate)

That's all I can think of...
[This message has been edited by WarVoid (edited May 01, 2000).]

	03-05-2000 09:38									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

Here's what I thought of:

Uzbeks
Timurids
Persians (Safavids)
Afghans (Mughals/Moghuls)
Kazakhs
Golden Horde

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


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	06-05-2000 00:17									#7
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Progress report (for anyone who cares):

WarVoid finished the map (again thanks, WarVoid, excellent work) and I'm in the final stage of doing the rules... or maybe not. Wonders and Improvements have been designed fully, Tech tree is also nearly completed, Terrains anyways (again thanks to WarVoid) and units are being designed right now.

I might need someone to help me draw some graphics. Units, perhaps even some improvements will be needed.

For finale, here is the definate Civ list:
Uzbeks
Timurids
Afghans
Persians
Kazakhs
Khanates (Most propably only Astrakhan)

There will be no Barbarians, or if, only very few.


------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	06-05-2000 02:13									#8
	Remove this text

You should have that 'Khanate' civ as the Golden Horde, under their true name, the Kipchaks. The map I drew is just big enough so that Sarai can be put on the map. It is located at modern day Volgograd.

You're going to need some barbarians in the east to represent the dying armies of Jagatai Khan's Turkestan empire and of the also dwindling armies of Tibet. Using the barbarians for this purpose would make the areas a threat to the player but not a long time nuisance that requires conquest.

Glad the map is good. Any time I can help...

	06-05-2000 02:37									#9
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Yeah...
I am thinking about the Turkmens too, but I haven't got the book handy (it's downstairs in my school bag, and I'm not gonna run down and get it while I'm online).

I'm not sure about the tech tree.
Should I make a general tech tree with techs that everyone can develop or should I make civilization-specific advance paths?

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	06-05-2000 05:32									#10
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Civs: (at least what I think)
Uzbeks
Timurids
Afghans
Persians
Kazakhs
Kipchaks
Barbarians = Tibetans and Turkmens (units only)

You need only three tech trees for certain civs.

Nomads Tech Tree
Yurts, Camel Riding, etc.
For civs: Kazakhs and Uzbeks

Mongolian/Asiatic Tech Tree
Samurai Code, Mongolian Cavalry, etc.
For civs: Timurids, Afghans, Kipchaks

Arabic Tech Tree
Mamelukes, Elephant Training, etc.
For civs: Persians only

This requires only three trees and only requires three sets of units. Not one for every player.

The name Persians I am not quite sure is correct for the time period though. I'll have to check my references and post back later.

	06-05-2000 14:17									#11
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Yes, having a common tech tree for Timurids, Afghans and Kipchaks makes sense, since they were all of Mongol origin.
I would like to have a sepperate tech tree for Uzbeks and Kazakhs too.

About the Persians: They are better-known as the Safavids, but this was their dynasty. I thought about calling them Safavids, but I decided against that.
The name "Persia" existed there from the times of the Sassanids (224-636 AD), who picked the name up from their home country (Persia, Fars).
The history of Medieval Persia runs like this:
At first, the Ghazwanids conquered large parts of Persia (977-1186), of whom I believe that they were of turkish origin.
They were soon subdued by the Great Seljuks (1038-1194), who lost their Persian territories to the Khwarazm-Shah, whose empire lastet from 1194-1231.
The Mongols conquered the territory in 1219, and the territory was given under the command of the Ilkhanates in 1258. The Ilkhans reigned here until 1360, and Tamerlane took over power, beginning 140 years of horror.
The Persians in the West, and later the Uzbeks in the north ended the Timurid power (ca. 1500). The Timurids survived as the Mughals in India.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html