29-10-2001 04:14									#1
	Democracy in Peril (3) - Turn Thread Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Players, in turn order, are:

Tau Ceti - Morgan
Qantaga - Peacekeepers
Flubber - Drones

Starting year is 2102 (I played 2101 with no unit movement in order to set passwords - but I did found the 4 Axis factions 3 bases each)

Yang has the Empath Guild, and has called planetary elections. His 3 slaves have voted for him (Aki is the other candidate).

Passwords have been sent to all

2102 has been sent to Tau Ceti

Good luck,

G.

	29-10-2001 04:30									#2
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Thanks for setting this up, Googlie! 2102 to Qantaga.

	29-10-2001 05:56									#3
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I am assuming that since an election has been called, we all have each otehrs commlink and can communicate at the outset or should we limit ourselves to communication once we actually meet. It will make a HUGE difference to my drones given the long period of no research .

	29-10-2001 06:10									#4
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Since the election has been called and Yang has been elected governor, we have obtained each other's commlinks legally by in-game methods, so immediate communication should be appropriate.

I do want to tell you both that I welcome any and all suggestions you might have for me in the running of my empire and in any way that I can aid you in our quest to save democracy.

I am certain that I will have many strategic questions for you both as we go, so I hope you will excuse my inquisitiveness.

Googlie, thank you very much for setting up the game for us.

2102 has been sent to Foreman Flubber.

	29-10-2001 07:07									#5
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Turn 2103 to tau

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Since we have immediate contact we can strategize toward common goals. Obviously Industrial Auto is HUGE but it would nice if one of you can get Centauri ecoology for me as soon as possible.


I think the we should

1. Have the drones stay out of the beelines that are most important (Ind Auto) and restrictions lifting since getting gifted all the precursors would slow down my research immensely. Instead I propose the Drones follow a weapons beeline to impact weapons. I think on balance the Drones could help get Ind Auto a few turns sooner but at such an increased tech cost that its impractical. Contrast that with having some good weapons available and a Drones faction that retains some ability to research (again off-main beelines) at a reasonable rate

2. Accept tech from you only when there is an immediate purpose to that tech or if it aids leapfrogging up the tech tree.

3. Gift you guys the military techs ONLY when you are ready to build those units

4. Build a fair number of units to be gifted over as needed-- I could gift you units for which you would not have the tech

5 Have you two figure out the best beeline up to Ind Auto-- I figure we should almost be there by the time I start research in 2111 LOL


More generally i see the Drones as the industrial engine of this alliance, with both the Pks and the Morganites having better abilities as the research engine.

The above is just one possible approach but my thought is that the Drones can contribute in tech on the weapons front while you two contribute Ind Auto.--

Just some thoughts-- I hope to hear other alternatives from you both soon but the reality for tech is that I have no decisions to make for a few years anyway But I want to hear plans. As I understand this, the AI should be a challenge so working together is the key-- No idea too crazy since i think the best way is to brainstorm this.

As for what I said above. . . adopt some, all or none of my suggestions since all they are is suggestions. . .

lets get the ideas flowing to whip some AI butt

Last edited by Flubber on 29-10-2001 at 07:16

	29-10-2001 13:22									#6
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2103 to Qantaga.

Agreed on IndAuto. I am working on IndEco now and will go FM as soon as possible. It would probably be beneficial for Qantaga to go FM as well (possibly even Flubber?), as you can both handle the early drones well. I can start work on CentEco after IndEco is ready.

	29-10-2001 18:28									#7
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Tau

The Drones can go FM early days (2 content workers even without police are nice) and in fact I will ask for that tech when you get it and when I have enough cash for the switch. The extra energy is worth it until its exploration time

More generally though, what do you two think of my idea of having the two better researchers on the main beelines and the Drones on the weapons beeline? My thinking is that the number of techs the Drones would need to be gifted just to be helpful on the Ind Auto or restrictions lifting beelines are so many (given 10 years with 0 research) that any benefit the Drones add would be at the cost of slowing Drone research dramatically. But if the Drones stay tech-poor for a while, they should be able to get Impact & HEC relatively soon .

Other questions

1 Are we a noble alliance or will we gas our enemies into the dirt?
2. Is it possible to make peace with ANY of the axis? I did get a truce with AKI and Zak.

	29-10-2001 21:22									#8
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2103 sent to Flubber.

Flubber, I think you are on the right track with your research plans. There is no need to slam our tech rates by passing techs until we need them and I like your idea of Tau and I running towards IndAuto and EnvEcon while you try to grab some weapons for us.

I did not get offered CentEco, so I chose InfoNets. I will send that to Tau once I have it. The two of us should be able to coordinate the jump to crawlers fairly efficiently.

I will switch to FM as soon possible.

As to your other questions, I would prefer to play the game as noble allies and not commit atrocities. Of course, survival is the key concern, so I may change my tune depending on how strong the AI comes on.

As far as peace with the AI is concerned, I imagine we can maintain truces with them, but I doubt it will last for long once conflict begins. I would also be wary of the AI launching surprise attacks while they are in Truce. Just my personal opinion, with no true basis in fact.

	29-10-2001 21:49									#9
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2104 to tau ceti


The land looks particularly harsh -- from what I can see of your lands it appears that 80% of all our lands are arid-- I don't see a monolith anywhere and the best we have are some specials-- I assume that this is part of the "challenge". The drones on this land without tech help would have a VERY tough time.


Only 6 more turns until I can actually research something

	29-10-2001 21:59									#10
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LOL - remember the game's parameters.

Yang's evil henchman, Haraad Ashandi, is pulling the puppets' strings.

So you might find an ally among the Axis powers, but the question is, can they be trusted? Or will they betray you? And from among them each of you has at least one implacable enemy.

(but in one of the other of these scenarioed games, one of the slaves broke ranks, so sweet talking and tech bribing might just work)

I think the spirit of the game would be broken if you resorted to gas - after all, you three are the great democracies of Planet fighting repression and unethical research - wouldn't you be stooping to Yang/Ashandi's level if you used nervegas?

(as an aside, I wish Firaxis had programmed it so that if a democracy used nervegas it got instant 3 drones per base or something - so that a player would have to change to police or fundy to do so)

Anyway, have fun

Googlie

	29-10-2001 22:07									#11
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Hmm - Flubber.

I popped a monolith immediately south of your start position on the test play and again just now, and a second pod pop gave me a rover on the test and a transport this time round.

You do have some aridity, but that's 'cos you are on mineral mountain (look at your elevation) and there are some rivers to be found.

G.

	29-10-2001 23:09									#12
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Hey googlie

I have only popped one pod thus far so monoliths could be coming in future pops. My first pop was a nut special and that made me relatively happy since it was adjacent to another nut special (so I have my pod producing base ). Popping a rover or a transport would be pretty great too.

In this type of game I do not mind the terrain THAT much since centauri ecology will mean forests VERY soon after formers.

	29-10-2001 23:44									#13
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2104 to Qantaga.

Most of my terrain looks quite arid too, but there is a promising-looking rainy/river area around.

	30-10-2001 03:01									#14
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My territory is also very arid, but I did just find the headwaters of a promising river.

2104 sent to Flubber.

	30-10-2001 03:13									#15
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2105 to Tau

and I just found a river as well-- I should found bases 2 and 3 next turn even though the terrain is awful. My HQ goes to size 2 in 6 turns IIRC so I hope to get another pod moving then

I see that Ind Ec is due in 3 turns and Inf net in 12 or so -- both of those should be much faster as the next bases get down.

On my end there is not much to coordinate since my researchers all got drunk and disorderly and have to stay in the drunk tank but they will be busting out soon

	30-10-2001 04:16									#16
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2105 to Qantaga.

With the founding of Morgan Processing this turn (every single visible square around it is arid but one of them has a monolith ) IndEco is now due next turn.

	30-10-2001 06:41									#17
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2105 sent to Flubber.

Well, this is going to be a challenge, isn't it? My river is nice, but it is only 4 squares long and everything around it is arid. I have the Garland Crater that is also all arid (at least the squares I can see). The good news is, there is a very nice Energy bonus square right in the center of the Crater. I will have my third Pod there next turn and drop it in two.

	30-10-2001 07:19									#18
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2106 to tau

I just plunked my bases down. I do have a river and hope to get a base over there in about 7-8 turns.

Its an interesting note about inefficiency that 80% ECON with 20 % Labs yields the most cash. Interestingly, substituting Psych for the labs lessens the cash yield.

. . . and tau, I do want to go FM as soon as possible but unless you can bundle some ecs with the tech, I think I will hold off until i have enough cash for the switch. Who knows? I may even squeeze out a tech before I am able to switch

	30-10-2001 20:08									#19
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2106 to Qantaga.

I do have enough spare energy, Flubber, so if you like I can send you the tech plus spare change next turn.

Centauri Ecology in 3.

	30-10-2001 21:08									#20
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Well Tau . . . if you are able to be that generous, please do. The immediate extra energy a square should more than compensate for the increased tech costs.

So is the plan to get centauri ecology and then back to the Ind Auto beeline. It appears you two are perfectly set up to leapfrog up the tree. I may be stating the obvious but would the plan be for tau to get centauri ecology and then start info networks with the idea of getting gifted it immediately AFTER starting by qantaga and having the research carry over to Planetary networks -- Then the first of you to reach planetary networks would gift Plan net and any necessary Ind Auto prereqs to the other and hope that it appears as a choice so the research carries over once again. Again, this may be a statement of the obvious since it would be a typical tech leapfrog but then again, perhaps there is a better plan.


Anyway I'm just thinking out loud here . . . largely because I will be totally useless for tech for a while. But my guys can build. . .


Longer term, we have to start thinking about our strategy in relation to things like SPs. I am wondering which of us, if any, should go for the WP, HGP, VW, CN etc etc. I am open to suggestions.

I am hoping that we can coordinate what we are doing. I was thinking that I should specialize the Drones with much more of a mineral focus than would be usual. What I am thinking is that you two could optimize research while I would just crank up the industrial war machine. As the drones I would start mining/boreholing to max minerals as soon as possible. Would the terms of the challenge rule out using Fundy ?? After I get a few bases out I would build almost no facilities except morale enhancing ones and would begin gifting units so you could build them without being burdened by the tech (or just sending them up to help defend my pactmates if support was a problem). the early terrain supports this approach given that I have incredibly arid land and a LOT of rocky squares.

So what do you think?? Again, just an idea. if you both think that a more traditional balanced approach where we each develop all aspects of our society works better, so be it. All I am hoping is that we can develop a team approach and I will play in accordance with what the team deems best.

	31-10-2001 02:35									#21
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I think that general plan of yours sounds good. Specifics:

The tech strategy you mention would be ideal, but at the moment it looks likely that if I take InfoNets next, I will discover it before Qantaga does. Giving it to him then would immediately increase his tech cost, so that is not great... however, things may change when he gets his third base built - especially if there is an energy bonus nearby.

On projects, my only strong preference is that I should take the HGP. It is crucial for creating Golden Ages, which I need to pop boom.

Units: Investing a lot of effort into morale enhancing facilities is not very useful if you are going to give the units to us. When control is transferred, the unit counts as newly built by the recipient, and will lose the original builder's morale bonuses.

	31-10-2001 03:03									#22
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Tau

. . . but if you get centauri ecology first then surely qantaga will beat you to info net and the leapfrog will work ?? You could get planetary net in just a few turns-- and you said it would immediately raise qantaga's tech cost-- I'm presuming thats because of the quirk that tech cost can be altered after starting the FIRST tech researched but remains unaltered after commencement for subsequent techs

Thanks for the info on gifting units. I never really gifted them before so I was unaware that the morale was not transferable. I still think I will build the morale facilities anyway so that I can be a fist for our alliance. Your info means that when I can can gift you the low morale ones without guilt.

Last edited by Flubber on 31-10-2001 at 03:09

	31-10-2001 05:55									#23
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Hello my friends, I am on a business trip this week and I am experiencing some unreliable hotel room internet access. Sorry for any delays.

I am currently scheduled to get InfoNets in three turns. My Colony Pod is in place on the Energy bonus and will become a base next turn, so that should speed it up by a turn.

I am following your strategy discussion with great interest. I will hopefully get offered PlanNets as my next choice and will send InfoNets to Tau as soon as I get it and he is ready for it.

2106 to Flubber.

	31-10-2001 07:42									#24
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2107 on to Tau

	31-10-2001 13:49									#25
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2107 to Qantaga. Looks like the tech plan will work. When do you want Centauri Ecology?

	01-11-2001 04:51									#26
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2107 sent to Flubber.

I will have InfoNets next turn.

Tau, I will want CentEco soon, but I will wait to see what my next tech rate will be before deciding when to ask for it. Thanks.

	01-11-2001 05:25									#27
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2108 to Tau

You will be pleased to know that I watched 3 of your scouts defend successfully against mindworm attack.


Tau

I will take centauri ecology immediately since a couple of forests will help me more than the higher tech cost will hurt IMHO.

Qantaga

I will let you know if and when I may want the techs you have.

Realistically, once I get formers I probably will avoid taking any others until it is time for crawlers

	01-11-2001 12:46									#28
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2108 to Qantaga.

	02-11-2001 04:18									#29
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2108 sent to Flubber.

I popped a monolith in a base radius this turn!

I am seeing the glimmer of green lands to the west and the headwaters of a new river, so my next set of Colony Pods should have some hospitable squares to choose from.

I did get InfoNets this turn and sent it off to Tau. However, I was not offered PlanNets, so I chose Centauri Ecology. Tau, send CentEco and hopefully that will open up PlanNets as my next choice. If not, I will choose IndBase and get you to send that one along as well, until PlanNets finally opens up. Thanks.

	02-11-2001 05:07									#30
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2109 dawns on the alliance-- on to Tau

My first former will roll off the line on my next turn-- I plan to forest nut specials for now unless you folks have another idea.

Sounds as if you have the run to Ind Auto under control. With only 2 techs left and both of you teching at a rate of every 5 turns, it looks good to get crawlers in a VERY short time.