29-10-2001 22:30									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't know when Ming became a mod, but it must have been a while ago.

I think that he does a great job, and he must have been chosen for a reason back then. Unless his behavior makes him a bad and unfair mod I say that he should be allowed to stay. And it isn't my thing to decide anyway.

	29-10-2001 23:16									#32
	Tired of ads?

My vote:

1) Give Ming a 10% increase in salary. (100% is too much, these are hard times. )

2) Give Templar an Aspirin. (Valium is too strong, he´s just having a bad hair day.)

	29-10-2001 23:39									#33
	Re: Should Ming lose his job? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by The Templar I think Ming has been quick to ban, disrespectful, and in general created (at least for me) a general atmosphere of caprice and disrespect though his efforts as a moderator.

i disagree. i find him to reasonable, respectful, and open to discussion. for me he has helped (along with the other mods and the admin, markos and dan) create forums relatively free from flames, spam and other types of horse ****, without spoiling the fun.

quote: I'm not defending UberKruX or his actions. I found most of his posts repugnant and his attitude inflamatory. But if Ming is to be a moderator, he must rise above the bait set out by flamers like UberKruX.

as i understand it uber was banned for repeatedly dodging the autocensor after being warned and not for flaming

quote: It is time to remind this site that it is participants who make it interesting. They may provide the forum, but we provide the entertainment.

IMO, ming is one of the most consistantly funny posters here (top 5)

quote: I urge each of you to vote your opinion. And if enough of us feel Ming should go, he should. If not, we should boycott Apolyton, reducing the forums to a ghost town until we are shown the respect due to us by the people who own and maintain this site.

i disagree with you, but i respect your opinion

quote: On the other hand, if you think I'm on crack or overreacting, or just need to calm down. Voice your opinion, and I'll shut up about the whole matter and admit that I was wrong.

only admit you're wrong if you truly believe that you are, how boring it would be if everyone agreed merely for the sake of agreeing


this last thought reminds me of a prior heated debate thus:
markg, i now agree with you that a civ3 MP forum isn't needed at this time. there's not that much to discuss after all

	30-10-2001 01:26									#34
	And the stupidity continues.... Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

What a load of crap!

The man needs YOUR approval Templer, to do his job?!!?

What nonsense.

Idiot breaks rules, idiot gets banned.

What's the problem?

This kind of poll is a load.

Find something better to do with your time than attack a guy for doing what's right.

	30-10-2001 01:53									#35
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I didn't read, but does Templar get a 10% PCR for this?
If not, why not?

Templar -------> SlowwHand------>

	30-10-2001 05:04									#36
	Re: Should Ming lose his job? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by The Templar I think Ming has been quick to ban, disrespectful, and in general created (at least for me) a general atmosphere of caprice and disrespect though his efforts as a moderator. I think he should be replaced - I hope the rest of you feel the same. I'm not defending UberKruX or his actions. I found most of his posts repugnant and his attitude inflamatory. But if Ming is to be a moderator, he must rise above the bait set out by flamers like UberKruX. It is time to remind this site that it is participants who make it interesting. They may provide the forum, but we provide the entertainment. I urge each of you to vote your opinion. And if enough of us feel Ming should go, he should. If not, we should boycott Apolyton, reducing the forums to a ghost town until we are shown the respect due to us by the people who own and maintain this site. On the other hand, if you think I'm on crack or overreacting, or just need to calm down. Voice your opinion, and I'll shut up about the whole matter and admit that I was wrong.

Ming is the bomb. He has stood in there against way worse abuse than you can bring, you little Johnny come lately.


And he bought me beers as a poor student!

	30-10-2001 06:09									#37
	Put an end to popups!

At this point in time it looks like he has lost his job

	30-10-2001 06:16									#38
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Funny... timing is everything... The OTF just opened again

	30-10-2001 06:20									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Oh goody

	30-10-2001 06:49									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

So when will The Templar admit he was wrong? I'm waiting

	30-10-2001 07:28									#41
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by The Rook So when will The Templar admit he was wrong? I'm waiting

I think that considering the primary vote in favour of Ming is 84%, he's probably avoiding posting on this thread. As an aside, Ming one of the best Mods I've ever encountered on a forum.

He's fair, tolerant and makes no distinction between a deity or a settler. It's a pity a lot of other Mods weren't more like him.

	30-10-2001 09:10									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune My vote: 1) Give Ming a 10% increase in salary. (100% is too much, these are hard times. )

This is Mings job???!!!
Ming actually gets paid for this???
Not that I'm objecting mind you, just that I wasn't aware of it.

[ Edit: Just read Provosts post. This would have been but I think I should be forgiven for not reading any of Provosts posts ]

	30-10-2001 09:18									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by ravagon Ming actually gets paid for this???

Paid!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA ROTFLMAO
*Well, MarkG was nice enough to send my an Apolyton Hat*

First, I don't need the money... my real job pays me well enough

But... I just want to give back to the civ community, and help MarkG and DanQ with this site. They have put more hours of their time into this than anybody can possibly know... As a member of this community, it is my duty to do what I can to help

	30-10-2001 09:20									#44
	Suffering from ads?

I thought Templar said he would bow to others wishes if the general consensus was "positive on his wiz quiz". Seems like the classy thing to do would be to some say something.

	30-10-2001 10:09									#45
	Ming isnt that Increase Your PM Length

Bah! Solver is Hitler

Me and Lung dont call him gestapo for nothing.

	30-10-2001 10:11									#46
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Actually I couldn't really see Ming objecting to not being paid for all his work here. Not if he can keep the OT World's hottest woman thread going anyway...

[Edit: Er, or so I am given to understand... ]

Last edited by ravagon on 30-10-2001 at 10:18

	30-10-2001 13:36									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, I still think Ming is too quick to ban (although Wes23's and RodLosAngeles's behavior on the Civ3 forum has me rethinking a bit).

GP, I've lurked here for awhile. Long ago I came here looking for CTP mods and then CTP2 mods. A little while ago I started reading the some of the forums. During one of the information explosions, I decided to join in. Frankly, I like Apolyton. Nonetheless, while lurking and while participating I've found some of the bans that have been handed down unreasonable and capricious. I misjudged the level of dissatisfaction - apparently I have a lower tolerance for forum moderation than most of you (BTW 12 voters DID agree with me, and 8 even feel more strongly about Mings performance - thus we do represent a sizable minority depending on how representative this vote is). I believe that while Markos or whoever owns the site can set whatever policies they want, that does not make them morally correct. I believe allowing jerks like Uber and Wes23 to talk smack is important. That's why we have ignore lists, and frankly if you ignore these jokers they eventually pack their toys and leave. I don't think Ming and Mark ought to kick them out. That's my opinion and that's that. The site can be run however Mark wants it run, doesn't mean I'll like it.

I would also point out that most of us, including myself , have been nasty in responding to someone else's post. Sometimes these arguments become tangental to the tread and even the forum. But they also keep things interesting. The problem is - I would rather suffer the occasional Uber than risk interesting discussions getting killed because some wiener thinks things should stay precisely on topic. Said weiner gets moderator to kill a thread, and suddenly Apolyton is as exciting as Firaxis tech support.

I will also say that I was wrong in assuming that others found bannings to be disrespectful. Whatever Ming has contributed to the community, and although Markos provides the forum, this community is only as good as the members who hang out here. A web community is a two way street. Any forum that disrespects its members deserves to become a ghost town. Any forums where the members become total jack@$$es to each other also deserves to die. I would prefer that natural selection and people's desire for community alone regulated a forum. Things like uploading a virus or having a DL should get you a vacation in mingapulco, but I don't think the context of ones posts (no matter how Uberobnxious they might get) should get one booted. But I haven't voted with my feet or broken the rules (to my knowledge), so obviously I am willing to live by the rules even if I disagree with them. I have also seen unmoderated forums self destruct because jack@$$es take them over - nonetheless, I think the self destruction derives from a lack of discipline among the members of the forum to collectively carry on or ignore the interlopers (you got 'ignore' capability - use it as you would an offswitch). If I ever conclude that it has become too odious around here versus the amount of pleasure I get discussing/arguing/suggesting/listening/flaming all of you, then I will leave. But if the majority of you stay - then I guess the market has also spoken.

Thus I will admit that I hold a minority view in the apolyton community, but it remains mine (and at least 12 others) nonetheless.

See you in the forums.

	30-10-2001 15:42									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I have not had any problems with Ming, but that may be due to my high quality posts, outstanding diplomacy talent and humble nature.

If this was elections, Ming would be about to enter his second term with ease...

	30-10-2001 17:31									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by The Templar I would also point out that most of us, including myself ...

i think you misjudged yourself

quote: Whatever Ming has contributed to the community, and although Markos provides the forum, this community is only as good as the members who hang out here. A web community is a two way street. Any forum that disrespects its members deserves to become a ghost town.

how about members disrespecting other members when they dont know and choose to ignore their contributions to the community?

quote: I don't think the context of ones posts (no matter how Uberobnxious they might get) should get one booted.

exactly.
an extremely low number of people have been permanently banned in the history of this site

	30-10-2001 18:08									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Gee Templar, if that's how you admit that you were wrong, I can't imagine what you would have written if you had been right.

You talk about respect, but one of your choices was that I was a Fascist... and then you hang your hat on the fact that less than 15% of the people supported your negative choices... Man, talk about rose colored glasses

A couple of simple questions for you... What have you done for the community? Have you given any of your time to improve this site or help the civ community?

MarkG and DanQ have...

While you are welcome to your opinions... you must remember that this is a private site...
They get to make the rules and set policy. It's that simple.
If you don't like those rules and policies, you are welcome to go somewhere else... as you say, you can vote with your feet.
Many people have... but far many more also vote with their feet and stay...

Being a mod isn't an easy job... There is no way EVERYBODY is always going to agree with a mods decisions.... I have had my home system broken into and infected... a hate site was set up against me... people tried to find personal information about me so they could attempt to cause trouble at my job.... my email and ICQ get spammed.... so I know that just how much people sometimes disagree with me.

But, I try to do the best I can... Sometimes I make mistakes, and I even admit that it when I do make mistakes (even though some claim I don't admit it often enough) But as you can see from the above vote (even with your biased choices) that overall, a majority of the people think I'm doing OK.... I will continue to try to improve.

Now your big argument is your claim that this site disrepects it's members... I say bull to that statement. They have rules, and they ask members to follow those rules... how is that a sign of disrespect?

They show their respect by providing tons of information that they have made available to the civ community... which has cost them and many others a lot of time and effort. This site is far more than just the forums.

They show their respect by updating the site on a daily basis, and by improving it's features regularly...

Those are signs of respect to the members of this site.

You are the one that is not showing the owners any respect!

	30-10-2001 18:59									#51
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Kruxie was a jackass that flamed+swore with no real provocation. He deserved a ban.

	30-10-2001 19:40									#52
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

UberCrux is a neurastenic.

Ming? Sometimes puritan, never fascist. Crazy? Well, he married a Serbian girl

	30-10-2001 19:47									#53
	Put an end to popups!

uber
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame11.html

	30-10-2001 22:01									#54
	Tired of ads?

Well, I guess that Ming has a lot more duties today then he had yesterday, as he now is listed as a mod (together with Mark) at the Civ3-forums.

	30-10-2001 22:22									#55
	Some guys just don't learn... Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I must admit that some Ape members
literally behave like apes.

First of all, calling someone Hitler
(like faded glory when he recently called Solver
"Hitler" is outrageous. Faded glory, your mum
should be ashamed of you! It sounds like you
wouldn't even know who Hitler actually was.
If you want to express your opinion on
someone's behavior, at least use proper words
like dictator or despot. More correct would have
been calling Solver a person that behaves like Hitler.
Point two, we can't decide who's a admin and
who's not. If someone wants to be a admin,
then he should contact the owner of the
site (in this case ACS), and not behave
like a seven year old child (reminds me of
Milosevic's statement today in the Hague).
My simple message is: grow up!
I just can't see any point in accusing
Ming for dictatorial methods.

We should actually be grateful to the admins
when they keep up these forums free of charge, apparently.

	30-10-2001 22:27									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

BTW, the admins are allowed to sack members. Some members should perhaps get fired.

	30-10-2001 23:46									#57
	Re: Should Ming lose his job? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by The Templar I think Ming has been quick to ban, disrespectful, and in general created (at least for me) a general atmosphere of caprice and disrespect though his efforts as a moderator. I think he should be replaced - I hope the rest of you feel the same. I'm not defending UberKruX or his actions. I found most of his posts repugnant and his attitude inflamatory. But if Ming is to be a moderator, he must rise above the bait set out by flamers like UberKruX. It is time to remind this site that it is participants who make it interesting. They may provide the forum, but we provide the entertainment. I urge each of you to vote your opinion. And if enough of us feel Ming should go, he should. If not, we should boycott Apolyton, reducing the forums to a ghost town until we are shown the respect due to us by the people who own and maintain this site. On the other hand, if you think I'm on crack or overreacting, or just need to calm down. Voice your opinion, and I'll shut up about the whole matter and admit that I was wrong.

Who are you?

Oh wait, your a warlord. It doesn't matter who you are...

	30-10-2001 23:53									#58
	Re: Some guys just don't learn... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin I must admit that some Ape members literally behave like apes. First of all, calling someone Hitler (like faded glory when he recently called Solver "Hitler" is outrageous. Faded glory, your mum should be ashamed of you! It sounds like you wouldn't even know who Hitler actually was. If you want to express your opinion on someone's behavior, at least use proper words like dictator or despot. More correct would have been calling Solver a person that behaves like Hitler. Point two, we can't decide who's a admin and who's not. If someone wants to be a admin, then he should contact the owner of the site (in this case ACS), and not behave like a seven year old child (reminds me of Milosevic's statement today in the Hague). My simple message is: grow up! I just can't see any point in accusing Ming for dictatorial methods. We should actually be grateful to the admins when they keep up these forums free of charge, apparently.

first of all its a joke between Solver and I and another PBEM player. He plays along so its not like im harrassing anyone

Secondly, what on earth does Slobodan Milosevic have to do with some forum in the corner cyber-space?

Third- Your comments are a bit out of line. Im not going to demand an apoligy. But please refrain from making such a knee-jerk accusations.

Thank you,

Have a nice day

	31-10-2001 10:06									#59
	Get a bigger avatar today!

All of this crap is such a joke..... all you guyz do is get together and point fingers at each other ...... this thread isn't about your petty squabbles, its a poll about Ming!

I think its great to have an OTF here, in fact there are many highly intelligent people here who post in that forum. Its a shame the forum is tainted with name calling , threads which have obviously been started before....and a whole lotta spam!

Now that OTF posts do not count towards postcount, other forums are being used for some of this conduct......

Ming does his best to "patrol" the forums..... considering he works quite a full day, he expects individuals to conduct themselves accordingly.

Most certainly though, Ming follows the rules as set out by Mark and Dan. Although not every decision can be correct the high majority of them are and the co owners of this site seem to have a belief that Ming is doing a great job.

No one can be happy all the time with the decisions which are handed down to us but we learn to live with them.

Ming does a job which can be difficult at times...... ic too many threads debating this.

Ming is only trying to put back into a community which has gained him many friends and a love for a game unlike any other. Cut him some slack and ask yourself first , "am i acting the fool?"

I don't think we need a thread for everyone which is closed down..... we end up have more conversation about why a mod removed a topic......

I think by now it should be obvious....... too many of these threads clog and detract from the overall quality of this site.......

Besiedes i personally think Ming does a great job......

	31-10-2001 10:40									#60
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Ming Being a mod isn't an easy job... There is no way EVERYBODY is always going to agree with a mods decisions.... I have had my home system broken into and infected... a hate site was set up against me... people tried to find personal information about me so they could attempt to cause trouble at my job.... my email and ICQ get spammed.... so I know that just how much people sometimes disagree with me.

I had no idea that kind of thing has gone on. My hats off to you Ming for sticking with it.