30-10-2001 06:09									#1
	The twin cities Remove this text

Dear friends Apolytoners.
Today is the last day without civ3.
It is also the day for me to publish my last strategical proposal for civ2.

The name is 'twin cities',
...and here is the reason why:

The special ability of a SSC is the ability to transform 1 trade arrow into 6 beakers with help of the following multipliers (before SETI):
Library: +50%
University: +50%
Isaac: +100%
Cope: *2
Hence: (1 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 1) * 2 = 6
(SETI or Research Center would make it 7.5)

If there are Einsteins in the SSC, 1 Einstein provides 3 arrows (or 18 beakers, as you like).
The trade arrows are provided either by the squares worked in the city radius ( 3 arrows for 1 ocean square in Rep or Demo) or by the 3 trade routes allowed.
There are 21 squares.
Therefore, what you can get after having grown the city to size 21 is approximately:
21*1 = 21 trade if Monarchy, no river, no ocean, no trade special
21*2 = 42 trade if Republic, no river, no ocean, no trade special
21*3 = 63 trade if Rep (or Demo) + Colossus
21*4 = 84 trade if Demo (or Rep) + Colossus + Motorways

Mountains,... and other kinds of rough terrain make it lower.
Rivers, oceans and trade specials make it higher.
But we can keep in mind that a SSC without trade routes would provide about 84*6 = 504 beakers/turn in the endgame (less if rough terrain, more if many rivers or trade specials, ...ocean squares don't benefit of motorways)

WHAT ABOUT THE TRADE ROUTES ?

Their value is Zero if you don't have any (that would be silly!).
Their value can very easily be over 60 arrows (which means 360 beakers/turn) if you follow my proposal of twin cities.

WHAT ARE THE TWIN CITIES ?

You build a SSC as usual (nice site, preferably grassland, trade specials and rivers...).
VERY close to the SSC (let us say 4 squares away), you build the twin city (preferably nice site, grassland, trade specials...). ASAP you send 3 caravans from the SSC to the Twin (or from the Twin to the SSC). ASAP you road the direct path between the SSC and the Twin. ASAP you build a railroad. You grow the Twin to size 21 or so, and THAT IS ALL (of course Temple + Colloseum, probably Harbor + Market Place + Courthouse, why not Bank + SE + Library + University, in the Twin).

WHAT DO YOU GET THEN ?

The value of a trade route is (HTA + DTA + 4) /8, where HTA is Home Trade Arrows and DTA is Destination Trade Arrows. This is halved if both cities are yours, +50% if direct road, +50% (on top of that) if direct railroad.

Therefore, with a SSC providing 84 arrows (Demo, Colossus, Motorways) and a Twin providing 63 arrows (Demo, Motorways), one trade route is worth (84 + 63 + 4)/16 = 9, ...
9, ... +50% = 14
14 +50% = 21
3 trade routes provide 21*3 = 63 arrows (in the SSC and also in the Twin)

WHAT ELSE ?

The standard SSC I have described (size 21, no Einsteins) provides (84 + 63) *6= 882 beakers/turn (settings 100% science). The standard Twin (size 21, no Einsteins) provides
(63 + 63) *2 = 252 beakers/turn
With 10 Einsteins in the SSC (providing 180 beakers) and 4 Einsteins in the Twin (providing 24 beakers), you get VERY EASILY a total of 882 + 252 + 180 + 24 = 1338 beakers/turn as soon as you build Motorways.

CONCLUSION

With about 1000 beakers/turn after Railroad and over 1300 b/t after Automobile, the 'Twin Cities Research Center' is the easy way to high speed research (1 tech/turn without caravans).


(La Fayette, ready to go to bed before D Day)

	30-10-2001 06:52									#2
	Put an end to popups!

When we were discussing early landings, the idea of a Super Trade City in addition to the SSC came up, which is similar to your twin city idea. After making a few trials, samson concluded it was unlikely that two cities with all the necessary improvements could be built up quickly enough. It was already quite taxing to build up the just one city quickly enough, let alone two.

The most efficient approach turned out to be connecting to a nearby AI city by railroad, to obtain the extra railroad trade bonus, which provided more than enough beakers needed for 1 turn advances. However, I must qualify that this was all done on a small maps with lower research costs and faster games.

So for medium and large maps there may be time enough to accomplish your twin city idea and capitalize on its benefits. You might want to try it on the last large map game in a replay, just to compare how it works with what you did before. Just as an added incentive, I think I'll mention that I believe a landing before 1000 AD can not be done from a random start on a large map!

	30-10-2001 12:12									#3
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Thank you solo.
Of course I had read your discussions with samson and I remember that samson got brilliant results using a foreign helper city linked to the SSC by railroad (I had also had a try at twinning an island city to the SSC and posted about that).
But IIRC you were choosing your maps.
My proposal is designed for random maps (or scenarios) where you take the map you are given (and a nice possibility to link your SSC with a fat foreign one is not frequent).
I agree with you that the bigger the map the better for that kind of technique.
Anyway, for those wishing to see with their own eyes, here is a save of my test game (just after building motorways)

Attachment: gu_a1100.zip
This has been downloaded 32 time(s).

	30-10-2001 22:49									#4
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Excellent work, La Fayette!

Have you compared the results at different t/s/l rates? As nobody runs 100% science for long, it might be good to see how well it works at 80%, for instance.

As solo points out, even a medium map should give enough time to build up both. Once your 4th city is settled, begin work on the SSC and its twin. Let the other 2 cities pump out settlers until the kingdom is big enough to fit your game style. With helper cities bumping up the SSC with caravans, the twin can work on its own improvements (rushbuying along the way). I don't think it would be a problem if no wonders are built in the twin. Sure, one or two might be useful, but that would detract from other goals. King R's Crusade comes to mind.

	31-10-2001 08:33									#5
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I like this plan and use it often. I will take it a step or 2 farther and build 4 or 6.Usually 2 at a time.Bigger trade cities get bigger cargo bonus and higher routes.It is a bust to wait around for the ai to build big fat cites with all the goodies like superhighways.
As noted it helps with beaker carry over to have your SSC at least the 2nd city founded.So it makes perfect sense to build up your cap at the same time.You have the built in advantage of a courthouse in the cap with your palace.Might as well use it.In this situation Shake's becomes less important or even interchangable between cap and ssc.

No problem running max science(10% for luxuries).Freight bonus swells the coffers so that no taxes are needed.Wouldn't that be nice in a real world?

	31-10-2001 13:39									#6
	Tired of ads?

Marquis
I gave the results at 100% science because I know that almost anyone at Apolyton is able to multiply by 0.9 or 0.8
I often run at taxes=0, luxuries=10 (since the caravans or freights bring the gold needed, as smash stresses)

solo
I don't remember exactly what samson tested, but I notice that I made a big mistake when testing my idea of 'island twin city':
I used an island far away from the SSC in order to get better delivery bonuses (and corruption was horrifying until I got Demo).
An island VERY close to the SSC should provide brilliant results (100% bonus from the start, instead of 50% for direct road).

	31-10-2001 19:49									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Thanks for providing the save file, La Fayette. I downloaded it and took a look, and like the results very much, because the idea works in most situations. Although the small world map samson and I used with such success was one he randomly generated, it is safe to say that it was one in a million, as it would be hard to start off much better with an edited map. The AI city we linked to did not grow or develop much. Its proximity was all we needed, as we made all the hay from the continuing bonuses from the road and railroad. Needless to say, AI cities next door to good SSC sites are few and far between in random starts, even on small maps where they are most likely, but for record attempts we were looking for these ideal starts to get the earliest possible dates. For most starts, waiting for "bait" to be taken leaves too much upto chance, as I proved in the last game! Twin cities is better.

On the large map game, I would like to see if anyone could break 1000 AD in a replay. The success you and Smash have had with twin cities and ship chaining has given me a few new ideas to try. Thanks!

By the way, my copy of CivIII arrrived yesterday. Hence, sorry for the delay in my response to the informative posts above.

	01-11-2001 01:08									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Lucky solo!
I have been asking anywhere around me: no news at all about civ3 coming to France in the near future

	01-11-2001 07:24									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette Marquis I gave the results at 100% science because I know that almost anyone at Apolyton is able to multiply by 0.9 or 0.8

Shows how much sleep I have been getting lately...

	01-11-2001 23:17									#10
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La Fayette,

Why not reimburse a friend in the US to buy and airmail you a copy. I'd be willing.

solo

	04-05-2002 00:34									#11
	Suffering from ads?

bump
this provides me one more possibility to say thank you to solo who bought civ3 for me and sent it by airmail

	06-05-2002 14:24									#12
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It's a good idea. I think most of us do this, maybe with some variations. In my games I've got some high production (HP)-cities and some (super/high) science (HS)-cities. They all will get temples, aqueducts and colloseums to keep the people content -> WE LOVE DAYS. The HP-cities build caravans or WoW, except the science wonders. The HS-cities will get marketplaces, banks, libraries and so on (the HP-cities will get them later).
In my games, a typical High-Science-city has got at least two trade specials (Wine, Gold, Silk), a typical HP-city has got at least 3 or 4 mines (1-2 of them coal/iron/oil/whale/pheasant).

	31-07-2002 01:29									#13
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bump

	24-03-2004 13:28									#14
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... and well worth the bump Monsieur - I somehow missed this first time round.
Good to have you back too.

Stu

	25-03-2004 12:12									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette bump

Have you used this approach in the early landing games?
Are you still happy with the results?
Any problems with it that you have discovered?

Thanks for bumping it - I don't think I'd seen it before.

RJM at Sleeper's

	26-03-2004 01:48									#16
	Got spare money?

Early landing games mean growing one city (the SSC) ASAP, and there is only one Shakespeare (this means that the second city requires a lot of happiness improvements). Besides, using a foreign city as twin is more performing (better trade routes).

I make use of twin cities when there is no foreign city available (for example: archipelago map) and when the map is bigger than average (IMO on small maps a big SSC and small helpers are more performing, because you skip the numerous happiness improvements in the 'helper' cities).

	03-04-2004 11:01									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette Early landing games mean growing one city (the SSC) ASAP, and there is only one Shakespeare (this means that the second city requires a lot of happiness improvements). Besides, using a foreign city as twin is more performing (better trade routes).

I tried this approach in early landing game 8, but as you point out the routes from the SSC to even relatively small foreign cities are worth more than those to the twin city. Even the research contribution from my twin was relatively insignificant. However, it did have the advantage that there was a substantial bonus even from undemanded goods.

RJM at Sleeper's