10-05-2000 13:07									#1
	Preventing a unit from taking a city Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I would like to prevent the units of a civilization from taking cities because this civ would be only an ally helping an other civ. It's for a middle age scenario and I already have an idea : I was planning to give that civ only air units (so then can't take a city), renaming "air base" to "Castles" and giving all ground units the ability attacking air units.
I don't think this solution is perfect, mainly because these air units would ignore terrains and would be able to walk on the ocean !!! So if you have an other idea...


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Pano
http://www.campus.ecp.fr/~pano

	10-05-2000 14:36									#2
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It may be an idea to make those units all trade units??? Trade units are (I think) able to attack units (when given a proper attack strength of course). They aren't able to capture cities, since they will automatically establish a trade route instead. The question is if that is really what you want. You would have to compensate the money that is gained through this trade. Apart from that, I have no idea how the AI handles this.
Perhaps 3rd domain units also work. The AI handles these as being land units, but just maybe they aren't able to capture cities. I'm not sure about that, though.

	10-05-2000 15:46									#3
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Trade units seems a very good idea... but the problem is that I could do only 2 different kind of units... and I was planning to use around 6 or 7 sorts of units !

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Pano
http://www.campus.ecp.fr/~pano

	10-05-2000 16:37									#4
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Why only two? Just change the unit roles to 7 and you can have as many as you want.

	11-05-2000 01:14									#5
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I've tried to make these trade units but they can't attack a city even if they have more tha 0 in attack. In fact when then unit is deplaced to the city it's only considered as a trade unit and you etablish the trade route... What a pity it doesn't work, it would have been great for my scenario


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Pano
http://www.campus.ecp.fr/~pano

	11-05-2000 02:03									#6
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All right, I give up. Why can't you just set the treaty status between the 2 civs to allied and then prevent negotiations via events? I know an allied civ can't attack your units - doesn't that mean they also can't take your cities?

	11-05-2000 02:04									#7
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Create a unit of the allied civ (American) in each city of their friends(French). Then move each American unit outside each French city (switch to the American player). I believe that for each French city you do that to, the American civ won't be able to take it over.

	11-05-2000 02:10									#8
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Another alternative which is 100% crashproof (no warranties made for the previous post :P) is the make the American civ units die upon attacking. That way one attacking unit can't take over a city. . . .

	11-05-2000 04:17									#9
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Pano, with the air units. Why not place air units in the city with a move factor of zero. Would prevent the units from moving around and stop another civs from attacking its cities.

	11-05-2000 20:04									#10
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shamrock : I will take an example : 3 civilization French, English, Germans. Germans have conquered France. English and French are allied against germans. English will help French to recover their territories. So English need to be able to attack German Cities without taking the cities (Only French could take the cities) ! So I don't think I can do anything with Events...

Michael Daumen : Your first solution doesn't seem work. And there is a problem with the second one : The units CAN take the city if there are no units in it ! Moreover it would have been a little bit annoying to have all the units of the civilization destroyed after attacking.

Civfan : I don't want to prevent the civ from attacking the city, I just want to prevent them from taking the city !


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Pano
http://www.campus.ecp.fr/~pano

	12-05-2000 09:10									#11
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Could you create an event that returned the city back to France if it was captured by England?

hmmm, on second thought that would destroy all of the English based units there as well, maybe not a good idea.

	12-05-2000 09:27									#12
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Your example helps a lot. Did you try putting English units in the German cities, then moving them off to see if they could go back in? I tried this for a scenario, and I couldn't take over someone's city once my units had been in that city.

...later...

OK this is what happened: If I put an American unit in each of the German cities, I can move American units into a German city without taking it over, unless in the meantime a German unit has moved back into the city or the city has built a new German unit. So I don't think this trick will work unless you prevent German units from entering their own cities, which sounds like a pretty dumb and impossible idea
[This message has been edited by Michael Daumen (edited May 11, 2000).]

	12-05-2000 02:13									#13
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hmm si tu faisais apparaitre, a la conquete de la ville par les anglais, un diplomate francais et que tu donnais de l'argent pour que tu puisse acheter la ville aux anglais au tour suivant ?

	12-05-2000 03:12									#14
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My francaise est terrible, but wouldn't buying/bribing the city be an act of war and dissolve the alliance?

Forgive me, Eyn, if I completely missinterpreted your post.

	12-05-2000 08:52									#15
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Si toutes les unites Anglaise sont du type "3", elles se deplacent comme des helicopteres attaquent les villes mais ne peuvent pas les conquerir...Bien sur, elles ignorent le terrain et elles peuvent se deplacer sur mer mais au moin elles sont vulnerables aux forces terrestres ennemies.

C'est pas la solution parfaite? Une autre solution c'est de placer une unite presque indestructible (Etat Major Allemand)dans chaque ville conquise... Cette unite sera sans movement et avec une attaque de 0. Les Francais seront les seuls a avoir l'unite dans la position des partisans qui peut detruire cette unite Allemande. Cette solution donnerait a un AI Anglais la possibilite d'attaquer les unites Allemandes hors des villes mais leur donnerait tres peu de chance de capturer une ville.

	12-05-2000 14:14									#16
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Pourrions-nous satisfaire la subsistance la conversation en anglais?

	12-05-2000 14:51									#17
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Eyn : En effet, acheter une ville est un acte de guerre et risque de briser l'alliance. De plus je pense que si les Français sont controlés par l'IA ils n'acheteraient pas les villes.

Nemo : I reply in English because Cam wants to I don't think your first solution works because I think helicopters can take cities ! Anyway it was almost the same as using bombers because I can gave all units the ability attacking air units. Indeed it's a medieval scenario, so there are no air units !
The second solution looks nice, I could also, with Events create a French unit near the city when the "Etat Major" unit is killed so that English have no chance to take the city ! As I'm making a multi-Events scenario I will have enough place to do it for each city. Moreover, I'm far from using all the units so there could be a different unit for each city. I think I'm going to do it that way...


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Pano
http://www.campus.ecp.fr/~pano

	12-05-2000 17:32									#18
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he les gars, j'savais pas qu'il y avait tant de francais ici! Et que Capitaine Nemo parlait francais..

	12-05-2000 20:43									#19
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All right, I've done it. I swhow you exactly what it is if someone needs it too. Here is what I put in Events.txt :

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=Nantes
attacker=English
defender=Germans
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
unit=Nantes
owner=Germans
veteran=no
homecity=none
locations
89,59
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=Nantes
attacker=French
defender=Germans
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
unit=Peasants
owner=French
veteran=no
homecity=None
locations
90,60
90,58
88,58
88,60
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
CITYTAKEN
city=Nantes
attacker=ANYBODY
defender=ANYBODY
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
unit=Nantes
owner=TRIGGERATTACKER
veteran=no
homecity=none
locations
89,59
endlocations
@ENDIF


I'll do it for the main cities, or at least for the cities English armies can take.

Allard HS : C'est cool, On pourrais même imposer le français comme langue officielle d'Apolyton

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Pano
http://www.campus.ecp.fr/~pano

	13-05-2000 01:19									#20
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Bonne solution, mais faut pas oublier de donner des city walls aux villes (importantes) pour eviter que toute la ville disparaisse. Parce que les events donnent une nouvelle defense chaque fois, qui tous, quand detruit, enlevent 1 du city size.
C'est quand meme une tactique epreuvee des Allemands, quand ils doivent defendre, de detruire tout .

quote: C'est cool, On pourrais même imposer le français comme langue officielle d'Apolyton

ouais. On peut demander Markos/Dan de creer un forum pour francophones.. c'est pas une bonne idee ca?

	13-05-2000 04:50									#21
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Please confine posts on this thread (largely) to the English language. This policy matter for Apolyton was decided some time ago. Thanks.

	13-05-2000 07:58									#22
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Sorry about the French... I just never get to use it anymore since I moved to the States...
To clarify my 2 points:

A unit type 3 moves like a helicopter but CANNOT capture cities. It's ideal as a "killer unit" for AI Civs as long as there is no real oceans on the map.

The point about the very tough unit that defends the city is that the AI will not be able to kill that unit. He will probably not even attack the city. For example a 0a 18d, 4h, 0move unit, basically unkillable. But a "lowly" 8a, 2f unit in the partisan slot can take out that unit because of some weird quirk in the Civ2 program.

My new scenario "Second Front" utilizes this quirk in the following way:
German pillboxes and coastal batteries protect all the entry points on the Normandy beaches blocking all approaches and making the June 44 landings a nightmare. Several of the coastal villages also have artillery and bunker positions inside them making them seemingly impregnable... They can wipe out 20 of the best Allied tanks without taking a scratch... Now comes the US "Demolition Engineers" lowly infantry carrying flamethrowers... they aren't much good at fighting enemy infantry or tanks but get them near one of the bunkers and poof it's blown up, even inside a city.

[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited May 12, 2000).]

	14-05-2000 14:30									#23
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Allard HS: Of course, I forgot to mention that all the main cities in my scenario have got City Walls !

Nemo : I'm not sure I've understood your idea. I don't understand how the 18d,4h unit can be killed ! Is it a bug in Civ2 ? Anyway, if I use it for my scenario, I would have to let only the "French" civilization playable and this is not my aim


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Pano
http://www.campus.ecp.fr/~pano

	15-05-2000 02:06									#24
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Yes it is a bug... Somehow partisans get a huge bonus when attacking units with 0a, like freight, settlers, caravans and seemingly indestructible units like my fortifications in RedFront. Someone figured this out and did a lot better than intended in the scenario. Now I'm using the trick as a special feature in my next scenario.

And it shouldn't be a problem if you don't want other civs to capture those cities... If you're not playing as the French you have no business attacking those cities anyway... Isn't that the point?
And if it's not build the placement of those indestructible units into the event file on the first turn or load special rules for each civ that makes the units vulnerable when needed (This is pretty much mandatory anyway if you want a scenario that plays decently from multiple sides)

	23-05-2000 05:06									#25
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Captain Nemo: When you do release "Second Front, will it be on the Apolyton forums or elsewhere?

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"There's one more thing you men can say when it's all over and you're home once more. You can thank God that twenty years from now when you're sitting by the fireside with your grandson on your knee, and he asks you what you did in the war, you won't have to shift him to the other knee, cough and say, 'I shovelled **** in Louisiana.'"
-General George S. Patton addressing his troops before D-Day landings June 1944

	23-05-2000 09:31									#26
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I will post it on any site that wants to host it...
When I get closer to complete I will start asking for testplayers. It is turning out to be as complex as Red Front so it's going to be several months before it will be ready. I am trying to give it the same historical feel as RF but this time seen from the Allied side.