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DarkCloud
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of Lists
Jul 2000
time: 05:15
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A bit preliminary, however
Index
I. Resources
1. Rubber
II. AI
1. General AI
2. Mutable AI
3. Learning AI
III. Wonders
IV. Units/War
1. Realism
2. Reports
3. Units
4. Movement
5. Military Advisor Screen
6. Espionague
V. Terrain
1. General
2. Improvements
VI. Multiplayer
VII. Interface
VIII. General
IX. Editors
X. The UN/Diplomacy
XI. Governments
XII. Trade
XIII. Technologies
XIV. Religion
XV. City Improvements
----
I. Resources
1. Rubber
- Rubber should be able to be synthetically produced in certain factories after a certain date, say after the civilization discovers Synthetic Fossil Fuels... After that time rubber can be found on the map, grown, or produced in Rubber factories
-DarkCloud
---
II. AI
1. General AI
-Have the AI enforce it's borders against other AIs.
Grunthex
2. Mutable AI
- The idea is that the a.i. code is highly flexible and new algorithims can be inserted or old one modified easily. Then, presuming the presence of a multiplayer feature, Firaxis reps monitor the MP games and use recordings of the best players as basis for new a.i. code. The code will be available as a free download on a bi-monthly
-Delthayre
3. Learning AI
The artificial intelligence monitors your moves and reacts accordingly, much like in Command and Conquer, etc.
-DarkCloud
III. Wonders
I know this will be difficult, but make the effects of the wonders fully editable. I.E, I can make a wonder called "Royal Road" that doubles the trade to all cities on the continent, even though there is no "official" wonder with this ability.
-Taylost
Wonder movies
-mrbilll
The Great Library seems to expire instantly, and the Great Wall really isn't even worth building in the first place.
-mrbilll
IV. War/Units
1. Realism
they could create a system of warfare where wars don't take 50 years to complete, even in the modern age.
-Taylost
subs should be able to atack citys on land, but there attack would be like 2 or 3 if the
atacked a city. is is ww2 subs had a deck gun. also they could be like bomders with that
they can chose to attack
JayMan
Civil War/revolutionary wars
-monkspider
Possible last minute idea: Casualty totals for wars?
Perhaps this has been suggested many, many times in the past and more elequently. Heck, maybe this is even already in the game ( ) but it is a little something I have always wanted to see in Civ.
I envision a system (nothing too fancy, mind you) which would simply record the total casualties for each side in a war. I'm talking actual lives, rather than units lost. In anchient times, say the Romans lost 30,000 men and the Japanese lost 20,000. In modern times Germany loses 10 million men and the Russians 20 million, and so forth. It would provide a sobering look at how terrible war really is, and you could sort of keep track of your worst wars ever for future references and so forth (oh, in this one game, I was the Babylonians and I was fighting China and Persia and I lost 100 million guys! It was crazy man!).
This would be a super-simple thing to add, really just an algorithm based on time periods or something like that to calculate how many men are represented by each unit. I say Firaxis ought to go ahead and implement this if they haven't yet.
c=casualties in war
p=population of civ
u=units killed in war
t=total number of units
c=p[0.2(u/t)]
-monkspider/JellyDonut
The possibility for an option of when you take a city- you can order the entire population slaughtered; of course the UN wouldn't like that, and the civ may now fight against you to the death; but it adds a whole new dimension.
"I want my racial purges!!!" 
-DarkCloud
Return Firepower (See this thread: HERE
-Venger
2. Reports
a report showing odds before a battle is attemped (as in SMAC)
-cort
3. Units
Privateer must have attack = 2
-Alex Kravetski
Mines! be able to place mines on squares within your cultural border (land or sea). Works similar to bombard in that it can't kill a unit just hurt. To join U.N. you must remove all mines from teritory. Also affects trade.
-YahMon
Stealth land units such as commandos which can also be placed on subs. Could be inserted with helicopter as well (might actually use them) detect chance 99% if on tile being worked by enemy city, base detect chance each turn 10% with modifyers (-5% mountains/hills etc..etc..)
-YahMon
Nuclear submarines that are able to carry multiple cruise missiles(2 or 3 will be fine)
-conquistadore
CAVALRY CHARGE TO THE DEATH OPTION
-Raleigh
Let the nukes be like the planetbusters of SMAC. Devastating, but with SEVERE diplomatic and environmental repercussions. They'd still be usable, but only if you've got a very good reason.
-mrbilll
War atrocities such as razing a city, bombing city populations back to the stoneage, etc... should make "partizans" spring out of the enemy civ (weak infantry?) and cause diplomatic problems unless it is in retaliation for a similar war atrocity commited by the AI
-YahMon
Well, Civ 2 did not really make use of ICBMs (Intercontinental Ballistic Missles). Instead Civ 2 mostly used tactical nukes or nukes you specifically tell what to do each turn, and there was also the ability to place a nuke using a spy. But the real fear comes from ICBMs.
I suggested adding an ICBM unit to civ 2.
Here's how it would work:
Assign it a target.
The ICBM would have a command allowing you to assign a specific tile for it to attack. It would then retain this tile in memory till your ready to use it.
Nuclear War
Somewhere in Civ 3 there should be a command to allow you to lauch your all your preset ICBM's. This is where the cold war idea comes in. All other Civs would have the option to launch their preset ICBMs in retaliation (even before your make another move). In a similar manner if someone else uses nuclear weapons you would immediately have the option to launch your preset ICBMs on them before they can make another move. Thus, things would take on a true nuclear war with all sides incurring casualties.
-Give it 0 movement points
Since the ICBM is not a regular unit, it has no movement points. To load it into a submarine you would move the sub into the city and load it on (like you can in Civ 2). To move to another city, there should be a unit that can do the same thing -- as well as an aircraft that can transport them as well).
Attack Order
There should be an order where you can tell a single ICBM to attack a location on the map instead of having to launch all your preset ICBMs. The enemy would of course detect it and have the option to retalitate with all their forces of ICBMs before your turn is over.
Missle Silos
Using your worker units you should be able to build silos anywhere you want and thus transport ICBMs to them for keeping till you use them (if ever).
Other Nuke Options
1. There would still be the regular old nukes in Civ 3 like there was in Civ 2 -- nukes that have move points as well as using nukes via a spy.
2. Thes other nukes cannot be detected upon launch or anything because they're not big and noticeable like ICBMs. However, once you hit a civ with one of these alternative nukes, the enemy should have an option to strike you with their ICBM arsinal before the turn is over (and of course you can respond in the same as can other civs). Thus, this would deter you from even using other types of nukes.
3. When a spy hits a city with a nuke, there should be a chance that the other civ did not detect your spy and thus cannot tell who did it.
Neutron Bomb
The neutron bomb would be a nice third type of nuclear weapon (perhaps in regular form AND ICBM form). The neutron bomb just kills lifeforms, but doesn't touch structures.
Options
Any time the message pops up asking if you want to launch your ICBM arsenal, you should also have a list of check boxes for the countries you want to attack. For example if you have some ICBMs targeted at Russia and some targeted at China, you can just put a check beside Russia to have those targeted at Russia to fire
Here is the message toolbar summarized:
"Russia has been detected lauching ICBMs.
Do you wish to launch your ICBM arsenal? "
YES | NO | CONTACT EMBASSY
Contact Embassy:
"The first detected Russian missiles will arrive in 15 minutes.
But be warned, if you chose to contact them, there may be some undetect missiles that may hit sooner!"
CONTACT | LAUNCH MISSILES | EXIT
YES/LAUNCH
"15 minutes till first Russian ICBM strikes
Which countries would you like to strike?
You have the following countries targeted:
Russia (19 ICBMs - 3 neutron)
China (10 ICBMs - 0 neutron)
Spain (3 ICBMs - 5 neutron)
Open Diplomacy channels after launch. "
LAUNCH | CANCEL
Kevin Ar18
4. Movement
More movement points for units. It makes sense from both a
realism and gameplay standpoint.
2 movement should be the minimum for regular ground units.
-ndnls
it'd be nice to be able to move a stack of units with one command (IE Tying units together)
-wotan321/DarkCloud
A (the) Patrol function ala SMAC
-Elowan
1/3 of a movement point still gets you to the next square
-EnochF
The Sentry function
Knasboll
5. Military Advisor
it'd be nice to have a scroll bar on the pop-up list of units on a square if there are so many that all the units don't fit in the pop-up window.
-wotan321
in the Military Advisor window, it sure would be nice to be able to upgrade all upgradable units in the units sorting at once, so you don't have to visit each unit one at a time....
-wotan321
For the military advisor screen- you can activate more than one unit on the screen at once without it closing and zooming in on the unit.
Dominator_Jones/DarkCloud
6. Espionague
1) A spy adviser screen: Like the other adviser screens. It shows both your own country and the other countries with whom you have established an embassy. For each there is a list of espionage options. For each country you also know how strong their espionage is in terms of the number and quality of spies( to be explained)
2) Spy units: I would bring back the spy units but in a different way. First of all they would be more expensive , more like city improvements than the spies in the Civ2. So you can only have a small number at any given time and you have to think carefully how to allocate them. Secondly they aren't like normal units but can only be allocated via the spy adviser screen. So this cuts down a lot of the tedium of moving spies to and fro. Like earlier games the spies will have a number of moral upgrades and also perhaps a diplomat/spy distinction like Civ 2.
3) Multiple defensive operations: this is a new concept( I think) where you can choose what branch to allocate your spy on the defensive. So if you are the technological leader you might allocate your spies to defending from tech stealing.. If you are lagging in culture you might allocate your spies to preventing revolts.
4) Allocating spies: This is fairly straighfoward . Just go to the spy adviser screen and click on the offensive operation for a particular country or whichever defensive operation you want. You can allocate multiple spies to an operation if you want. You can reallocate spies but that will cost you something in terms of unfinished missions.
5) Completing a mission: Each offensive mission has a certain number of spy points. Each spy unit produces a certain no. of spy points per turn depending on morale. You complete the mission only after the number of turns you need to accumulate the spy points for that mission. If you have more spies, their points are added up and you finish the mission more quickly.
6) Spy wars: These happen when the guy you are attacking has a defensive spy for that operation. So suppose you assign a spy to steal Rome's tech but Rome has a spy defending technology, then there is a spy war. This also happens if you have already accumulated points and if Rome decides to allocate a spy from somewhere else to fight you. The spy war is decided according the number and moral of the two sides ( and perhaps some other modifiers). If you win you destroy his spy and simply continue accumulating points. If you lose either your spy is destroyed and exposed or you simply lose all your accumualated points and have to start over.
7) Options to see other players' spy allocations: There are various possibilities. Perhaps you can have an offensive mission to see all of one opponent's spies for a certain number of turns. Perhaps if you build a certain wonder you can see how other countries are spying on you permanently etc.
8) Joint spy missions: You can ask other countries to join you in some spy mission. So you allocate a spy to stealing Roman tech and ask Greece to join you which increases the speed of the mission and makes you stronger in spy wars. Of course both of you get the tech when the mission is complete. There are other diplomatic possibilities as well.
-Kautilya
V. Terrain
1. General
More varied terrain!
-VanManstien
The ability to right click on terrain and add text (from SMAC). This adds a great deal to the experience.
-jimmytrick
2. Improvements
-upgradable fortresses (maybe they can add defense AND act as a colony?)
-national flags (basically claim a square and eight surrounding squares, similar to colonies, but still count as within borders)
-bridges across one tile of ocean between landmasses
-canals (ship movement over land)
-Airbases
-cassembler
-Farmland
-EnochF
----
Continued on Page II
XI. Governments
Fascism, Theocracy
-Yoleus
Social Engineering:
political structure:
tribal - despotism - monarchy - oligarchy - republic
main "reason" behind the political structure:
religion - bloodline - wealth - military - constitution
civilization "core" (like the "goals" in SMAC"):
religion - commerce - power - research
them freedom level, education level...
-Yoleus
More govts with strategic value (everyone goes for democracy even AI) Maybe even variations on current govts say for instance Parliament as a variation of Republic (a modern republic if you will)
-civmonger
Feudalism
-DarkCloud
Socialism
-YahMon
XII. Trade
Ability to trade military units--international arms dealing, a very important part of modern day diplomacy!
-David Murray
Ability to trade food to prevent the ridiculous situation of one starving city and one city overproducing in the same Civilization.
-David Murray
Roads provide trade bonus anywhere
-EnochF
XIII. Technologies
Ability to steal a technology when capturing a city
-TLG
XIV. Religion
I think different
religions could be implemented like any governmental
forms. It could have some kind of effect on the
cultural expansion and support certain governmental
forms. They would also replace the lack of fundamentalism
in the game.
-Rasbelin
religion,like shogun, can make you friends and enemies.
like government changing.
it can cause revolts, immigration, new civs.
each religion has a rating that is how many citizens are that religion.
each citizen has its religion, like nationality
etc.
-tishco
XV. City Improvements
Superhighways
Stock exchanges
-EnochF
---And for tribes info: See Page II of this thread: The system overflowed
The Tribes info is a bit old; but it is a good resource for Firaxis-
Last edited by DarkCloud on 24-11-2001 at 07:38
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ndnls
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The Frozen Wastes (Canada)
Oct 2001
time: 01:15
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Since I'm here, I may as well add my two cents.
More movement points for units. It makes sense from both a
realism and gameplay standpoint.
It shouldent take 100 years for a swordsman to move to a
nearby city and I want to spend my time fighting and exploring
rather than wait for my units to get in place. 2 movement
should be the minimum for regular ground units.
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Jamison
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I know this has been talked to death, but I really do think it is a good idea. A social enginnering thing (alaa smac). Not futuristic, but just something that lets us customize our civ. It think the Commuism, Republic, Democracy are too out of date. Example: what kind of economy do you want your civ too have? Is it a peaceful civ, or warlike? And have the choices impact how other civs look at you. Have bonus's and punishments, ranging; for the choices you make. You want to have a depoist government?, but with huge military power? Cool. I know I will get flamed like a mo fo. But I really want to be able customize my civ; not just say "ok I'm a republic".
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Yoleus
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Feature I would like for Civ IV:
1) a good designer team that DOES NOT LEAVE during development  I am not blaming Brian Raynolds for going, it is just that I would like him not to leave the job halfway through.
2) No silly projects to steal time and resources to the developers (Dinosaurs? Dinosaurs?? They have been extinct for a quite long time, why do you want to dig them out of the grave? Sid Meier's Golf. I mean, no comment needed. It is a joke in itself)
3) an UNIQUE COMPLETE release!!! Something like, you know, MP, scenarios, an editor. Not 6 versions, 12 patches and the "mod it yourself, yes edit the text files, you just have to rewrite this AI code" mantra.   
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Blake
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Brainfallocatione
Oct 2000
time: 17:15
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I just dont want to have to watch hundreds of my allies units waltz back and forth inside their borders every turn *sob*.
Is a "Dont watch allies/peace/enemies moves" (except combat) too much to ask for? (wasn't for SMAC)
And I'd really appreciate the "Dont zoom to units with orders" command from SMAC, if not familliar with this order it means that a unit with orders (say Automated Worker) just does his work 'off screen' and the view doesn't switch to him, this would save heaps of time later in the game when I have 50 automated workers...
I'd also like the option to have automated workers just sit somewhere and stratch there butt when no work is needed to be done (instead of becoming un-automated, I mean, what am I supposed to do with him?). Sooner of later pollution will pop up, or I'll capture a bit of land, and he can activate and get to work.
Note this should be an option, because earlier in the game it makes sense to add bored workers to city populations, but later in the game it doesn't, and the hassle of rebuilding him later outweighs the slight benefit....
I'll echo R for railroad instead of shift-R, and all the keyboard shortcuts should be cleaned up to reduce the number requiring a shift/ctrl-key to be held down.
Thats actually mostly stuff which should be fixed in the expansion, rather than Civ4... but anyway.
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31-10-2001 08:37
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