01-11-2001 00:56									#1
	I have Civ3, expect an indepth review shorty Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i am going to take a fews days off from apolyton to play civ3 and to develop my own veiws of the game, expect a review from me around sunday

	01-11-2001 01:23									#2
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We're waiting with exitement...!!!

	01-11-2001 01:50									#4
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Hey, who you callin' shorty?!

	01-11-2001 02:20									#5
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cool. finally an unbias review.

	01-11-2001 02:36									#6
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No one is without bias.

	01-11-2001 04:56									#7
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Very interested to hear your opinion.

	01-11-2001 05:13									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Korn is one of the very few people here who really has a level head, in my opinion. I think he has a very sharp eye for what's wrong, what can be fixed, and what doesn't need fixing. And I think he'll be fair.

I will stand by Korn's review. If he says things are basically fine, I will basically shut-up.

[ummm, take your time on this one, Korn! ]

	01-11-2001 05:17									#9
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 If he says things are basically fine, I will basically shut-up.

just like you did all the other times....

	01-11-2001 05:19									#10
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I never promised to basically shut-up ANYWHERE but here, Markos. Care to troll some more? Lock a few more of my threads, maybe? I think there are some on page 4 you missed.

	01-11-2001 05:29									#11
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 I never promised to basically shut-up ANYWHERE but here, Markos.

how many times did you "leave" the forum the last 6 weeks yin?

	01-11-2001 05:30									#12
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Mark,

I have no problem with you holding Yin to promises. Just don't lock his threads all the time.

After I beat on yin for a while, he finally graciously admitted to having gone back on a CTP promise. Of course, I haven't been able to be as gracious myself...since I should let it go, now.

Yin, despite his love for beating on games companies is a nice guy...

	01-11-2001 05:32									#13
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GP: Peace ... and thanks.

Markos: Look up the word 'promise.' I have said I'd be off 'indefinitely' ... look that up, too. I also said I'd be back if Firaxis screwed up big.

Well. Guess what?

	01-11-2001 05:42									#14
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 I also said I'd be back if Firaxis screwed up big.

let's explain that a bit

with the exception of the announced-before-the-release cut of MP, which are the issues that cant be corrected in the first patch?

or do you define any problems as "screwing up big time"?

	01-11-2001 05:47									#15
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If Firaxis were to make a public statement about why they failed to tell us about the missing MP and broken editor ... a statement expressing their regret at having 1) yanked us around and 2) sent out a game with those missing cucial features, promising in turn to clarify if MP/editor will be in a patch or something we will have to pay for:

It would go a long way toward shutting a lot of people up, I think.

	01-11-2001 05:54									#16
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 If Firaxis were to make a public statement about why they failed to tell us about the missing MP and broken editor ... a statement expressing their regret at having 1) yanked us around and 2) sent out a game with those missing cucial features, promising in turn to clarify if MP/editor will be in a patch or something we will have to pay for: It would go a long way toward shutting a lot of people up, I think.

1) they did announce that there wont be any MP.
do you want an apology because they did it 3 weeks before the release instead of 6?

2) they have also stated (on the official site) that they do plan to work on better editing tools


btw, yesterday in the chat Jeff Morris said that there isnt a decision on what will be done with MP part. would you like them to do an official press release to announce that there is nothing to announce?

	01-11-2001 06:01									#17
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quote: 1) they did announce that there wont be any MP. do you want an apology because they did it 3 weeks before the release instead of 6?

Where and HOW was it 'announced'? In leaked e-mails? In video footage? In FAQs updated waaaay after the fact? They have NEVER once stood up with a clear and public voice to clarify the issue and why it was handled so improperly. NOR DO WE KNOW IF WE WILL HAVE TO **PAY** FOR MP!!!

They still can.

quote: 2) they have also stated (on the official site) that they do plan to work on better editing tools

AFTER the release! Ahem. And still no 'explanation' for why they shipped it to us KNOWING that we were expecting a great editor.

quote: btw, yesterday in the chat Jeff Morris said that there isnt a decision on what will be done with MP part. would you like them to do an official press release to announce that there is nothing to announce?

First: YES FOR GOD'S SAKE! Don't you sometimes make announcements that there is no article this week? Hmmm....

Second: ONCE AGAIN we have the problem. '...in a chat...' '...in some article...' '...in a conversation overheard in Hunt Valley...'

	01-11-2001 06:09									#18
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first of all, it would be nice if you didnt yell

quote: Originally posted by yin26 In FAQs updated waaaay after the fact?

what matter is that it was well before the release.

quote: why it was handled so improperly

they are not politicians to answer for their pr

quote: NOR DO WE KNOW IF WE WILL HAVE TO **PAY** FOR MP!!!

they dont know either

quote: AFTER the release! Ahem.

no, before the release in the dev update by jeff morris on civ3.com, as well as jeff morris' interview right here on apolyton

quote: First: YES FOR GOD'S SAKE! Don't you sometimes make announcements that there is no article this week? Hmmm....

yes, and they announced it on the official site

	01-11-2001 06:12									#19
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I'm no reviewer. I'm way biased.

I'm happy to being playing civ again.

let me just say this game kicks ass

a few complaints

no fundamentalism. although this makes the game more challenging. so no big deal

no unit bribing. maybe I can actually win a mp game!! if they ever make a mp patch. I have a feeling it will be an expansion like MGE. greedy bastards

kind of slow. But I'm still learning. I have a feeling I can speed things up. But I'm running with 256 megs of ram, and p3 700 processor. I"m getting about a 1/2 sec delay between turns and I"m still in BC times. I'm afraid how bad it might get in 2000 AD.

	01-11-2001 06:17									#20
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Well, Markos: You know they shipped the game without the proper features and you know they have NOT done well by the public.

That's the end of the story.

	01-11-2001 06:25									#21
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Well, Markos: You know they shipped the game without the proper features and you know they have NOT done well by the public.

so they didnt "screw up big". they just "didnt do well"....

	01-11-2001 06:29									#22
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Well, to a guy like me who thinks PR and common courtesy are an important part of getting me to give up my money: It's a big mistake. A BIG ONE.

To people who could care less and just want to play whatever comes on the CD: It's not a big deal at all.

	01-11-2001 06:39									#23
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Well, to a guy like me who thinks PR and common courtesy are an important part of getting me to give up my money: It's a big mistake. A BIG ONE. To people who could care less and just want to play whatever comes on the CD: It's not a big deal at all.

PR and common courtesy in all business are marketing tools.

it is good that you realise that there are people who mostly care about the quality of the actual product and not about the quality of the way in which the product is advertised to them. hopefully this will be reflected in your future posts

	01-11-2001 06:42									#24
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Yes. "Quality of the product." Shall I list them again for you, Markos?

	01-11-2001 06:43									#25
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And look up the phrase: "Bait and Switch"

Might be helpful here...

	01-11-2001 06:52									#26
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG btw, yesterday in the chat Jeff Morris said that there isnt a decision on what will be done with MP part.

That sounds ominous

So its not even clear if they will do a MP version?

	01-11-2001 06:54									#27
	I just don't understand. Suffering from ads?

Why?

Why does this happen.

This thread became merely Yin (who I have in my short time observing these boards come to dislike for his hot headed arrogance) and MarkG (who I have grown to dislike because he displays traits similar to Yin's).

It's just like the U.N. there was a lot of heated jibberish and nothing was accomplished...and I'm sure if there was a bill Uncle Sam would get it.

OT question for Yin: I'm presuming that you had to learn Korean. What was it like, I've heard Korean a few times, and for the life of me I can't pick out individual words (I usually manage to at least identify broad phrases). On a light hearted note, I once saw what I believe to be a Japanese television show dubbed into Korean, needless to say it did not work. The dub job rivaled the Godzilla movies in mismatch mouths to sounds.

	01-11-2001 06:57									#28
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Shall I list them again for you, Markos?

the missing public apologies for the missing press releases?

	01-11-2001 06:58									#29
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LOL!

OT: Learning Korean if you start from a Western language is ranked by linquists as being in the "Hardest" category. Just to give you some perspective: I've lived here now 5 years ... working in a Korean office with Korean co-workers and having to use Korean everyday ... and I *still* feel like I've only got the basics of casual conversation. A vast majority of Westerners quit within 2 years when they see that they are still just bumbling and nobody understands them at times.

	01-11-2001 07:00									#30
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ok Delthayre, back to the start.

where is korn!?! did he forget about us?