01-11-2001 14:47									#1
	CIV3 RELEASE PARTY - the best parts Enter the AD-FREE zone

http://apolyton.net/misc/chat/civ3/civ3party-best.shtml

	01-11-2001 18:22									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

[ProvostHarrison] When do you reckon the MP will be available?
[Jeff_Morris] Hard to say...no contracts have been signed
[ProvostHarrison] So it is going to be a downloadable patch or a sold expansion patch
[Jeff_Morris] Hard to say....We'd love to make it a patch...but no decision has been made
[ACS_MarkG] money, money, money....
[Jeff_Morris] feh...
[Jeff_Morris] Only time will tell..
[Jeff_Morris] There is no contract for an expansion right now so there's no decision been made

	01-11-2001 18:23									#3
	Suffering from ads?

quote: money, money, money....

I'd if it weren't so

	01-11-2001 18:46									#4
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by yin26 I'd if it weren't so

if only we had communism.....

	01-11-2001 19:25									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by MarkG if only we had communism.....

Ha!

My wife grew up under a communist government. From what she tells me, if Civ3 had been developed under communism it would be like this:
- it probably wouldn't release for a couple more years, since nobody stays at work all day or does much of anything while they are there.
- there would only be about 1/10 the number of copies made as there are people who want to buy it, and 90% of those would disappear into the black market before reaching the store, and you'd have to stand in line all day to get a shot at buying one (unless you have the contacts to get yours on the black market).
- it would be much buggier and have fewer features when it finaly did come out, because nobody cares about the quality of their work.
- they wouldn't patch it because nobody cares what the customer thinks (unless you bribed a a member of the development team to patch it for you - a case of vodka would probably do the trick).
- the sequence of social development & governments in the game would progress strictly per the Dialectic (or it would never be released and Sid's next project would be "Sim Gulag").

	01-11-2001 21:02									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Due to the Socialist economics of a communist system Computers and CPU games would not be available. For the same reason people in the USSR could not get choclate or Bananas. It wasnt a free market economy..

Russian stores had only one thing in them. Bread, Bread, and Bread...no brands, no meat.

	01-11-2001 21:10									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

By what I read, the real Civ 3 is coming in an Expansion pack, next spring!

And I suspected micromanagement would be really bigger in Civ 3 the moment I saw how "infested" with cities any minimap was.

No reduced micromanagement, no multiplay, no events system!!! The game might be very addicting, but I bet it's going to be a disapointment to many hard-core fans in any way.
Probably on this point: modern age games are really slow and boring in Civ 2, and it seems that in Civ 3 is even worse!

	01-11-2001 21:33									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Sorry I couldn't be there, had to take a mid-term. I am, however, now prepared to discuss, at length:

-- the four modes of DES encryption
-- The seven stages of network penetration
-- How a "man in the middle attack" can defeat the Diffie-Hellman key exchange
-- Why password salts decrease the effectiveness of a dictionary attack

and other incredibly interesting cocktail-party conversation


What? No takers? Hey, where is everybody going???

	01-11-2001 21:36									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

network what?

	01-11-2001 21:40									#10
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by MarkG network what?

Hey, mister dirty mind, it's legit! It was even on a white paper written by IBM and everything!!!

Dan

	02-11-2001 00:25									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Sorry this has nothing to do with this thread but I have to say.......


Welcome aboard Barnacle Bill!!!!!

With a handle like that I couldn't resist.

	02-11-2001 00:32									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Sorry I couldn't be there, had to take a mid-term. I am, however, now prepared to discuss, at length: -- the four modes of DES encryption -- The seven stages of network penetration -- How a "man in the middle attack" can defeat the Diffie-Hellman key exchange -- Why password salts decrease the effectiveness of a dictionary attack and other incredibly interesting cocktail-party conversation What? No takers? Hey, where is everybody going???

Perhaps some other time Dan. Chris Crawford would definitely be interested in some of those subjects but he's busy hunting for leonides at the moment.

But perhaps you would you be willing to discuss:

-- Skepticism's different facets and construals?
-- Skepticism pertaining to natural law statements concerning nomic and accidental necessity and the inductive or deductive
method to substantiate the certainy claim?
-- Law statements in the light of quantum mechanics?
-- The classic "is human knowledge bound to be skeptical?", "why is God's knowledge claimed to be doubt free?" or "is there knowledge without god?"


We could also discuss the paradoxes of timetravel...

	02-11-2001 04:02									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hmm... Firaxis won't guarantee that MP will be in a patch, eh? Going to try to sell us the same game twice again?

I have three copies of Civ2. - The first version (2.42), the MP, and stupid ToT. And they didn't even release MPG in Australia, so I BLOODY WELL DOWNLOADED IT FROM THE INTERNET. Screw the bastards. They still got three lots of money out of me...

That is NOT going to happen with Civ3. I will not buy it until either the MP comes out or they guarantee that MP will work with the retail edition. In the meantime. Warez, friends, anything. I will not be gouged again. Once bitten, twice pissed off.

	02-11-2001 06:31									#14
	Communism! Suffering from ads?

Just to clarify (since this is a common misconception in the U.S.)

No true communist government has ever existed. All such regimes now are horrible twistings of the idea. I do differ from Marx on many points (times change) but the fundamental ideal of a classless society rings true. Heck, I'm for a moneyless society in which luxury items are distributed based on your job (public servants such as teachers actually make out better than do-nothing corporate desk-jockeys) and labor based taxes (read up on the Incas [or maybe it was the Mays] they had a moneyless society in which farming on state farms served for taxation). Long, confusing, and occasionally self-contradicting story short: In my ideal world everyone who wanted it and did their share would get a copy of Civ 3 (and as another plus: no money means no reason to rush, thus, a more complete product). Pardon the propaganda. Living in country in which anything but pro-capitalism is fiercly resisted merely because we are complacent in our current system has made me prone to ranting .

Damn publishers.

P.S. Don't make this a topic of debate, merely humor a desperate and lonely man. (word man is used for effect, it sounds better)

	02-11-2001 18:07									#15
	Re: Communism! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Delthayre Just to clarify (since this is a common misconception in the U.S.) No true communist government has ever existed.

It certainly isn't for a lack of trying. Please spare us your variation on the theme...

/ Döbeln 2001

	02-11-2001 23:55									#16
	Re: Communism! Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Delthayre Don't make this a topic of debate, merely humor a desperate and lonely man. (word man is used for effect, it sounds better)

OK, but one rant deserves another...

Communism is the political/economic equivalent of a perpetual motion machine - sounds great in theory but doesn't work in practice. Funny how all the folks who like the idea never seemed to have lived under it. Go hunt up some first generation immigrants from Eastern Europe and ask them about it.

The only people who ever favored it in mass were those who had such a raw deal that anything looked like an improvement (for example serfs & slaves). You can't collectivize everyone except by force... if you don't use force, somebody will opt out and pursue his own self-interest (me, for one). When you use force on people who are just minding their own business and individually reaping the fruits of their own individual efforts instead of throwing it in the communal pot, they tend to resist... then you have to kill them (or at least enough of them to scare the rest into toeing the party line)...when you pull on that thread you get Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc... If you are not willing to kill (great big batches of) people over it, your communist state is never going to be any bigger than a hippy commune because folks just don't buy into it willingly. Most free people just are not interested. That's why they had to built the Berlin Wall to keep people in, and America has a Border Patrol & INS to somewhat stem the tide of people trying to get in.

Is America perfect? No... but if you ask me the way to fix it is more freedom not less.

	03-11-2001 01:46									#17
	Suffering from ads?

hmm...seems like this is more for the OT

	03-11-2001 05:38									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hey, I appear on there enough times. Don't I get a special colour for my name like Markos of JB?

	03-11-2001 08:00									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Sorry I couldn't be there, had to take a mid-term. I am, however, now prepared to discuss, at length: -- the four modes of DES encryption -- The seven stages of network penetration -- How a "man in the middle attack" can defeat the Diffie-Hellman key exchange -- Why password salts decrease the effectiveness of a dictionary attack and other incredibly interesting cocktail-party conversation What? No takers? Hey, where is everybody going???

4 modes of DES encryption:
1. Output of random number generator
2. Wav file with .exe extention
3. Source code for Windows
4. Output from a typing monkey.

Seven stages of network penetration:
1. Find a network
2. Try to break in
3. Find that it's using Linux, so
4. Scream that you can't get in
5. Give up
6. Find a Windows network
7. Be amazed at how many people leave their hard drives shared w/out a password .

You see, Diffie and Hellman are playing Monkey in the Middle with a key. The secret is to grab the key by jumping twice your height.

You see, salt breaks down the paper that a dictionary is made of, so the guy can't read his dictionary anymore.

Im an geniess, aye no.

	03-11-2001 09:24									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

CobraA1

	03-11-2001 20:56									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

And to think I could have had HIM take my mid-term for me!!!


Dan

	04-11-2001 01:57									#22
	Re: Communism! Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Delthayre Just to clarify (since this is a common misconception in the U.S.) No true communist government has ever existed. All such regimes now are horrible twistings of the idea. I do differ from Marx on many points (times change) but the fundamental ideal of a classless society rings true. Heck, I'm for a moneyless society in which luxury items are distributed based on your job (public servants such as teachers actually make out better than do-nothing corporate desk-jockeys) and labor based taxes (read up on the Incas [or maybe it was the Mays] they had a moneyless society in which farming on state farms served for taxation). Long, confusing, and occasionally self-contradicting story short: In my ideal world everyone who wanted it and did their share would get a copy of Civ 3 (and as another plus: no money means no reason to rush, thus, a more complete product). Pardon the propaganda. Living in country in which anything but pro-capitalism is fiercly resisted merely because we are complacent in our current system has made me prone to ranting . Damn publishers. P.S. Don't make this a topic of debate, merely humor a desperate and lonely man. (word man is used for effect, it sounds better)

Anarchy is great in theory to . But it should have slower production.

	04-11-2001 19:40									#23
	Re: Communism Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There have been instances of "theoretically correct" Communism existing for short periods of time in small communities, like the kibutz's (probably spelt it wrong) in Israel during its early years.

However (and this is my blatant attempt to keep this on topic), this is almost impossible to simulate in a game of Civ and therefore the Communist government can only be the totalitarian version that seemed to work well up until about 1990.

Mind you, I've never seen a world leader with a blood alcohol level higher than his approval rating ouside of Russia, so I'm not too surprised

	04-11-2001 20:45									#24
	remember Put an end to popups!

remember me? I'm the guy who has a pentium200 and consequently, can't play civ3. I hope you're having fun.

	05-11-2001 03:01									#25
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Dan, confirm to me that Civ3 multiplayer will not be an extra we have to buy later, like we had to with Civ 2 (remember when we had to rebuy the entire game?) and I'll buy it. When it gets here of course (damn non-simultaneous release).

	06-11-2001 12:57									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Sorry I couldn't be there, had to take a mid-term. I am, however, now prepared to discuss, at length: -- the four modes of DES encryption -- The seven stages of network penetration -- How a "man in the middle attack" can defeat the Diffie-Hellman key exchange -- Why password salts decrease the effectiveness of a dictionary attack and other incredibly interesting cocktail-party conversation What? No takers? Hey, where is everybody going???

Why are you taking mid-terms? Is working for a major games developer a summer job? Does your mum know Sid or something?