02-11-2001 09:57									#1
	Borders are Worthless Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

is this a bug? for example i played as Japan, and im at peace with all the nations but i have NO rite of passages signed or alliances signed meanwhile everyone comes into my country and fights with each other on my damn soil! sure they arent really bothering me per se its just annoying, i even ask them all to remove there units and they said they will but never do. Seems like Borders are completely worthless to me, rite of passage or not anyone can move through anyones territory. Even in civ 1 or 2 or even SMAC you werent allowed to walk thru another nations territory unless your at war or something, this is something they should fix in civ 3. Its my country, i dont want bozos fighting in it and the worse end of that is by traveling through my country so much to get to otherwise inaccessable parts of the world, save by ships and whatnot they steal resources

	02-11-2001 10:18									#2
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Right of Passage allows others to use your roads and rails.

	02-11-2001 10:27									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It depends on how much they respect you. In a recent game I shared the continent with two civs, one I traded with and was helpful with, the other I got in a few wars with. When I told the former to get out of my borders they did a good job of it, they had one city that was isolated from the rest of his empire by one of my borders and his horsemen just ran in circles around it, couldn't go anywhere. If I told the second civ to stay out of my borders, they would pull back, but then start sending units across my land again.

	02-11-2001 10:32									#4
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thats not realistic, you dont see US Troops and planes moving through another country without aquiring rites of passage, no matter how much they dont respect them.

	02-11-2001 10:45									#5
	Put an end to popups!

LordRiker, America doesn't send its military through other countries without rites of passage that's funny

achem! I'm over it.

	02-11-2001 10:56									#6
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Not once has a land unit crossed into my territory. They seem to be working pretty well so far.

	02-11-2001 10:58									#7
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did you not understand? Thats what i said, We Americans must still ask for rites of passage to move through another countries land, no matter how much we disrespect them. It'd be easier to get to Afganistan from Iran but they denied rites of passage now i know we dont respect them but we still dont go through without permission thats how it should be in the game, Its stupid anyone can move through your territory without you the player giving permission.

	02-11-2001 11:12									#8
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Why don't you just go to them and say "Give me all of the cities here, here and here or else I'll crush you like a bug!" They'll say no, so you're at war, you conquer them and they not around so they can't enter your territory. Plus you get more resources. Easy!

	02-11-2001 11:23									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I have been living besides the Romans and for the entire game they respected the border, very good at keeping to themselves.

Although one annoyance is Im at war with the Germans but they have no land bordering mine, so they send their armies through Egypt who is bordering me and at peace with me. Germans send troops to the edge of the border then do lightning raids at my cities. So I said screw it and sent half my army into Egypt to kill German troops before they can get to my vulnerable cities/workers. So far Egypt hasn't complained, and they better not!

	02-11-2001 11:30									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The only instance of tresspassing I've had is that I share an inland lake with the romans, and for some reason they have insisted on building a bunch of ships and sailing around in circles...oh well.

	02-11-2001 11:41									#11
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quote: The only instance of tresspassing I've had is that I share an inland lake with the romans, and for some reason they have insisted on building a bunch of ships and sailing around in circles...oh well.

It seems the AI has truly been refined! At least playing the game will provide a good laugh.

Bkeela.

	02-11-2001 11:54									#12
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I'm not sure what the problem is. I've only seen civs fighting each other in my territory when the units were within my cultural borders, but not my city borders (if you know what I mean), and when I ask them to leave, they leave. Unlike civ2, they no one has declared war on me for doing so, either.

However, I've wandered around in others territories as well, and the computer usually won't ask you to leave until you're near a city, except for one time when I was in the jungle, clearing it with workers--when the jungle was gone, they saw my guys and asked me to leave. Maybe they just didn't think the jungle was productive enough to complain over, but the grassland was.

	02-11-2001 11:59									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoloid Cow LordRiker, America doesn't send its military through other countries without rites of passage that's funny achem! I'm over it.

Really? I was under the impression that American ground units have only been in foreign countries under three circumstances:
1) America was at war with them
2) America obtained the right to do so from the gov't
3) America was at war with them, but didn't let anyone know AKA covert activities....in any case, you never see divisions of mechanized infantry just wandering over into Canada and Mexico.
Usually, they just wander into strip clubs and stuff.

	02-11-2001 13:09									#14
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not true. from time magazine:

"When the Reagan Administration sought permission to overfly France in 1986 to bomb Tripoli, President Mitterrand refused..."

american jets flew through france anyway, and dropped dummy bombs on the south of france as a way of flipping the bird.

by the way, the raids on tripoli never harmed qaddafi, but did manage to kill his daughter. the lockerbie hijacking by libyan nationals was a direct result of this.

w.h. auden: "those to whom evil is done / do evil in return"

so sadly true...