02-11-2001 11:18									#1
	Unit healing too phony Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Hmmm am I the only one annoyed at this or is unit healing in cities too annoying? What's the point of a siege if you cant weaken the garrison? Next turn they'll be 100% again! The only way to capture cities is with a high concentration of assault units all attacking at one turn... but history shows that most cities are captured with long sieges where troops garrisoned are weakened over time, supplies cut off, etc... The current model has no way to simulate this

Also- why is the military model so unrealistic in respect to modern units fighting primitive ones? My tank got warded off by a MUSKETEER... whats up with that? I guess i have alot of game-file editting to do...

	02-11-2001 11:28									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Um, they don't heal that fast usually, I've worn down enemies in a city before. I think part of your problem might be that when you attack a city the most powerful unit in the city moves to the top - so if there's four units in a city and you do 2 damage each time you attack the city, it's going to be four attacks until you are attacking a weakened enemy, and he may have healed somewhat by then.

	02-11-2001 13:11									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

musketeer ehh? am I the only one that really misses firepower ratings?

	02-11-2001 14:33									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I thought the Civ2 combat system was great and well balanced... I haven't played Civ3 yet but from the sound of it, it's ugly.(Civ1 like, even)

I mean, partisans in forts have a great kill rate vs stealth fighters (I've lost quite a few "pacifying" the countryside after taking over cities) but most other things happen the way they should...

	02-11-2001 17:47									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

You might want to check my thread on neutral gameplay observations for a related thing about combat: I mentioned it is pre-determined, in turn leading to an odd situation that I had several times.

I would have Elite or Veteran Archers attacking (force: 2) units at best veteran warriors or archers (also defense 1) who were standing on flat terrain like grassland... and knowing I couldn't win. So the only choice was to retreat even though I was stronger in stats. This gave the enemy lots of opportunities to pillage and hamper me while they shouldn't have been able to so easily.


Hmmm maybe this is somewhat unclear -here is a 'transcript':

-2 archers of mine on plains, elite and veteran 100% health
-1 archer and 1 warrior veteran of the enemy on grassland next to my units
*save game*
-attack enemy units
-elite archer dies from warrior
-veteran archer wins from enemy archer, retaining a single hitpoint
-enemy warrior slaps my last archer
-hmmm
*load game*
-exact same outcome as before
*load game*
-same outcome again (etc)
*load game*
-retreat units
-pillaging by enemy
-grrrrr

	02-11-2001 17:56									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Grim Legacy You might want to check my thread on neutral gameplay observations for a related thing about combat: I mentioned it is pre-determined, in turn leading to an odd situation that I had several times. I would have Elite or Veteran Archers attacking (force: 2) units at best veteran warriors or archers (also defense 1) who were standing on flat terrain like grassland... and knowing I couldn't win. So the only choice was to retreat even though I was stronger in stats. This gave the enemy lots of opportunities to pillage and hamper me while they shouldn't have been able to so easily. Hmmm maybe this is somewhat unclear -here is a 'transcript': -2 archers of mine on plains, elite and veteran 100% health -1 archer and 1 warrior veteran of the enemy on grassland next to my units *save game* -attack enemy units -elite archer dies from warrior -veteran archer wins from enemy archer, retaining a single hitpoint -enemy warrior slaps my last archer -hmmm *load game* -exact same outcome as before *load game* -same outcome again (etc) *load game* -retreat units -pillaging by enemy -grrrrr

this is not probably typical, but the first outcome will alwyas happen if you try to cheat and load the game again. This is an anti-cheating measure that Firaxis has included. Whatever the outcome of the first attack, then that will be the outcome of any subsequent that you save-load-cheat.

	02-11-2001 18:04									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Oh I see the reason why, dainbramaged, it's just that it makes these battles less dynamic in my view.

	02-11-2001 18:06									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Are you sure it works this way? What if you reload the game and do things in another sequence? (I'm not enough of a cheater to have tried yet ) Most games will have a "random" number generator which will give the same result when reloading the same situation, but often if you activate a unit somewhere else or something, it randomizes the result of the combat or whatever. (OK so I have cheated before )

	02-11-2001 18:11									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Sikander Are you sure it works this way? What if you reload the game and do things in another sequence? (I'm not enough of a cheater to have tried yet ) Most games will have a "random" number generator which will give the same result when reloading the same situation, but often if you activate a unit somewhere else or something, it randomizes the result of the combat or whatever. (OK so I have cheated before )

Ah yes I've peeked a bit at this too, but it seems it's not sufficient to make an entertainer or change production somewhere. Looks like not even moving other units will help. I'll try some more, but it would be a hassle anyway. I'll keep you posted heheheh.

	02-11-2001 18:16									#10
	Got spare money?

Edit: When you want to write a post, do it quick. Otherwise someone else will say the thing you wanted to say and you look stupid

quote: Originally posted by dainbramaged13 this is not probably typical, but the first outcome will alwyas happen if you try to cheat and load the game again. This is an anti-cheating measure that Firaxis has included. Whatever the outcome of the first attack, then that will be the outcome of any subsequent that you save-load-cheat.

Typical random number generators work by using a "seed" value and each call for a random value modifys that seed. That means, the random value will always be the same if the seed value stays the same.
It looks like Civ3 does what I have observed with a lot of other games as well: it saves and restores the seed value instead of generating a new one. However, if that is the case, all you would have to do is do something where random numbers are involved BEFORE engaging into the combat. Of course, as random numbers go, the new random numbers won't be very helpful either

Also, there might be different seed values for different actions (battles, espionage, ...). In this case, you would have to have another battle before the one that is important for you.

	02-11-2001 20:22									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It may work that way if you try the same exact attacks in the same order but I know I can reload and do things slightly different.

dainbramaged- what difficulty are you playing as? I only play as as Regent since it is supposedly the only level where the computer dosent get production/science cheats or handicaps. The only thing is I'm wondering if its got cheats for computer military units...

I really think there should be a firepower/armor type deal brought back. The units were alot more realistic in Civ2 in my opinion. My tanks have trouble even killing cavalry! I lost an elite tank to a cavalry which I attacked just now!!! It was about 1/2 health but still, the cavalry was on flat ground!