02-11-2001 12:02									#1
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1. Not that long ago, several civers thought it would be a really good idea if Firaxis waited with the Civ-3 release until spring-02 (the "they shouldnt rush it" argument). Now the single-player part together with all kinds of editors, is released before christmas-01, while the multiplayer-part is released spring-02. Why? Because Firaxis dont want to rush the multiplayer-part. Isnt this good news?
   
2. Wasn't an October release planned for quite awhile ago, even though it wasn't public? I manage software projects and there's always a time-table that you are working at. If you say that an October release of Civ3 with bugs mean it was rushed. How about a Feb 2002 release that has bugs, would that have been rushed too? Or how about a July 2002 release? While I don't really care when Civ3 is released, to say that it was rushed because it won't be perfect, seems a little myopic to me. I mean, it's going through at least a 5 weeks beta testing cycle , that's more than what alot of other products go through, isn't it?
   
3. I just had a horrible thought. What if Infogrames is french for Activision
   
4. [The most voted for option in Korn's 'Is Civ3 being rushed?' thread] "No. Multiplayer is a little used feature that shouldn't delay the release, and all other feature will work fine."
   
5. While we don't know what goes on behind closed doors at firaxis, I have confidence that they will produce the worlds greatest computer game when it is released. I also have confidence that if they don't include multiplayer (which is likely, but unproven) that they will patch it as soon as possible, free of charge.
   
6. I voted for Civ3 to be perfect in every way. Every thing I have read and saw points to this and the best thing that could have happen was no mulitplayer for 5 months. This means that Firaxis probaly never had any attention of wasting time on mulitplayer from the beginning and have instead spent all thier time on making Civ3 the best SP experince in gaming history.
   
7. Just because a game go through patches doesn't mean it was rushed, it means that there is enough of a fan base that cares to make the game even better.
   
8. Yin, all this "the game will suck if we dont give it 6 more months" shi-t is bull. they've worked on it for long enough, just trust them.
   
9. I'm interested to know why many people feel that this game will be buggy if it gets released early? They've had a lot of time to make the game, and many people to make it. A bigger team than the team that made Black and White. (yes, I know it was buggy). This game is not a revolution in gaming, they're all using known knowledge. They weren't doing any serious major changes or additions. They were just simply making things better. So 3 years sounds perfect to get everything done and without bugs. And hey, October is just around the corner, can't wait. I'm really happy about it..
   
10. [...quoting myself...]Trust me on this: If Civ3 gets released in October, it will be a good 3 or 4 patches before we come even close to getting the game it should have been. And just when we WERE getting close, Firaxis will decide it's time to move on or put the real fixes in an expansion pack to "justify" the programming time that should have been better allocated to begin with. I've seen it a hundred times.

Of course, I'm just a silly whiner with no sense of reality!

	02-11-2001 12:05									#2
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Tell us how you really feel, Yin .

	02-11-2001 12:10									#3
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<== Watch that post from Markos soon with a locked thread and a message: "We don't need spamming 'I told you so' threads. Not everybody thinks the game was rushed."

Imran: You'd bet good money on that, right?

	02-11-2001 12:14									#4
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yin, you are one annoying bastard.

These "I Told You So" threads are even more silly because I've been playing Civ3, and absolutely love it.

Each time I see one of these threads I think less and less of the man that is Yin.

Let's see the Yang, I'm tired of Yin.

	02-11-2001 12:18									#5
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LOL! As if I care about being loved by Asher. That's hilarious!

Hey, I took a lot of flack from a hell of a lot of people when I argued that the October release spelled trouble. I'll say "Told you so!" until I'm personally tired of saying it.

How's that?

	02-11-2001 12:19									#6
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Well, since I'm getting my game in November, can I say mine was a November release and that means no trouble?

	02-11-2001 12:21									#7
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 LOL! As if I care about being loved by Asher. That's hilarious!

You know you want it!

quote: Hey, I took a lot of flack from a hell of a lot of people when I argued that the October release spelled trouble. I'll say "Told you so!" until I'm personally tired of saying it. How's that?

October release spelled trouble?
The game is FINE.
The only trouble is it came right before mid-terms.

I don't like TBS multiplayer, I don't care for scenerios or the editor. It's perfectly fine for me. I'm glad they didn't make us wait because a minority of people liked doing multiplayer.

What it comes down to is:
You don't like it, you don't buy it.
You don't make 10000 threads about it seeing "see I told you it'd suck!" even though the vast majority of people are really enjoying it.

"I Told You So" only works when you are correct.

Now bend over!

	02-11-2001 12:24									#8
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quote: Well, since I'm getting my game in November, can I say mine was a November release and that means no trouble?

Umm, sure? LOL

Asher: Talk about annoying.

Did I say the game sucks? Why does everybody like to put words in my mouth? I said it would be a rushed job if released in October. And for saying that, dozens upon dozens of people hated me for it.

Well: I was right. So were many others. Civ3, as is, is a rushed product. So why say "I told you so!"?

Because it feels so damn good to prove a point I was lambasted on.

And, no, I don't need no friggen Asher-love. I'm on a strict diet.

	02-11-2001 12:25									#9
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Doesn't feel rushed to me.

Perhaps that's cause I never looked at the editor?

	02-11-2001 12:26									#10
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LOL! Ah, yes. Good point.

	02-11-2001 12:57									#11
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i cant choose between this and this

	02-11-2001 12:58									#12
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But he's such a determined troll .

	02-11-2001 13:00									#13
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It's O.K. Markos. Just wait quietly for your patches.

	02-11-2001 13:03									#14
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG i cant choose between this and this

I think you qualify as both, Markos.

But honestly, this is you, Markos.
And this is Alexander's Horse.

	02-11-2001 13:27									#15
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yin, congratulations. you're on the ignore list of 6 people.
i'm trying to find if anyone else has more.

	02-11-2001 13:30									#16
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG yin, congratulations. you're on the ignore list of 6 people. i'm trying to find if anyone else has more.

You should include these privacy violations in some privacy statement.

You could legally get in trouble for doing things like this.

	02-11-2001 13:34									#17
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quote: yin, congratulations. you're on the ignore list of 6 people. i'm trying to find if anyone else has more.

1. As Asher says, revealing that kind of information for your own trolling purposes is in poor taste.
   
2. Idiots can put people on ignore just as easily as a moderator can troll, it seems. In all fairness, they might not be idiots: Perhaps they just can't handle pessimism proven right. Fair enough. But about that trolling moderator ...

	02-11-2001 13:56									#18
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 As Asher says, revealing that kind of information for your own trolling purposes is in poor taste.

small note: asher didnt make any comment about the taste of my post nor did he characterize it as a troll

quote: Originally posted by Asher You should include these privacy violations in some privacy statement. You could legally get in trouble for doing things like this.

	02-11-2001 14:00									#19
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Taste is such a poor word.

Yin is a better troll than you, Mark (Sorry).
Mark is a more interesting person to listen to though (Sorry).

I love you Mark. Step into my banana boat.

	02-11-2001 14:08									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Taste is such a poor word.

what about "poor taste"? how poor is that?

quote: Yin is a better troll than you, Mark (Sorry).

the thing is i dont try to be a troll

quote: Mark is a more interesting person to listen to though (Sorry).

that i try to be

quote: I love you Mark. Step into my banana boat.

you're sounding like horsie now

	02-11-2001 14:13									#21
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG what about "poor taste"? how poor is that?

I think Yin's threads here are in poor taste.

quote: you're sounding like horsie now

I confess my love for you and you compare me to a barnhard animal?

	02-11-2001 14:19									#22
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG yin, congratulations. you're on the ignore list of 6 people. i'm trying to find if anyone else has more.

I've often found in my many forum going years that people who ignore other posters do so for two reasons.

1. They are nearing sub-human in their intelligence and would make a twelve-year-old blush at their immaturity.
2. They make a point that does not conform to their viewpoint. At all. In fact, they hate the person for making a point that they just can't seem to refute. Their comfort zone has been brutally violated. As a safeguard mechanism they will use an ignore feature/kill file or if necessary just skip the offending posts/messages.

In this particular case I'm leaning towards the latter.

	02-11-2001 14:21									#23
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I'm not so sure.
It's a mix I think.

Yin does some pretty annoying stuff.

There's a reason I vanished from the Civ3 forums until the game came out: So many people have tried to convince themselves Civ3 will be the ultimate game of all time with all of this constant hype. Lo and behold, it doesn't meet expectations (who could have seen that coming?!) and everyone gets all pissed off and posting things like "Oh my God it's SOOO BUGGY Firaxis sucks AHHH". Obviously those people haven't played U9, Anarchy Online, WW2 Online, B&W, etc. Now those are buggy games.

	02-11-2001 14:30									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Asher B&W, etc. Now those are buggy games.

Oh god, it's true. For the most part the only support the game has had via patches is technical in nature.

I kept waiting for a patch that would address gameplay concerns (Witness the game crippling whining villagers who became utterly helpless the moment a god showed up.)

But it never came! Waaah.. What is this!? Some kind of sick joke?! Where am I?

Since SMAC had several patches I am confident Firaxis will fix this game. If not...

	02-11-2001 19:12									#25
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I vaguely remember Brian Reynolds making some quote about not releasing a game too early with tons of bugs... Now he's gone. I only wonder what WOULD'VE been had he stayed on... *sigh*. That's too bad.