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gachnar is offline gachnar
Chieftain
Arlington, VA
Nov 2001
time: 00:15
  Old Post 03-11-2001 00:57 Visit gachnar's homepage!
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War (Greed vs. Starvation) Inflate your Upload Space

For my first crack at CivIII, I decided to try the Persians. Science and Industry have always been my keys to victory. I'm only on Warlord, but I need to get used to the game, so it was a good choice.

I was granted (what is in my opinion) one of the worst starting places of any of my rivals, but the placement of my capital is probably the best of any civ. Lots of extra food, lots of luxuries.

After only a few thousand years, the layout became clear to me. I was in the northern-center (concave edge) of a crescent shaped continent. Zululand to the west, Babylon to the south, France to the southeast. But between me and Babylon/France is a wide expanse of jungle. Immediately, I realize this will be a good source of rubber in the future. Between me and Zululand: a grassland corridor through mountains. That becomes my first direction of expansion.

Horses and Iron were easy to get, and after some roads I have a medium sized army (but not an Army) of Immortals, waiting to do my bidding. They were going to clear out all the barbarians, but Shaka decided to grab two of my workers. I immediately sent the Immortals to take Zimbabwe. Within about 10 turns they have taken 4 cities along with a new supply of luxuries. When we make peace, we trade territory maps, and I realize that I have also seized his iron and horse supplies. I just lopped off the arm of the Zulus. Time to expand some more.

I expand, grabbing coastal areas, filling in continental voids, make roads through the wilderness to speed movement. Then the world changes: Gunpowder.

I was all peaceful. Every civ around me was trading with each other, and had generally cordial relations. The Babylonians were the largest and were right with me on tech. They had not chosen to dive for Gunpowder yet.

I had no saltpeter.

Sure enough, there is a saltpeter deposit right near Babylon (within a neighboring cities control). But then my eye caught the real prize, Larsa: a tiny city on their frontier to the desert/jungle wasteland between us, with 2 saltpeter deposits. Completely surrounded by desert, population 1, no roads to the rest of the cities.

It will be mine.

Knowing that no AI will ever be as devious, treacherous, or cold blooded (well... maybe cold blooded) as a human, I devised a strategy while they worked toward Gunpowder. I dispatched about 8 immortals to the area just outside Akkad(where the single saltpeter was). Meanwhile 12 Immortals with pikemen and longbowman support moved to Larsa. There are no roads to Larsa, and many small nearby cities. I knew the army would be seen before it was able to take the city.

After a brief argument, I attacked. Akkad went down fairly quickly. They couldn't move fast enough to counter 8 Immortals. I dropped a pikeman and all the hurt immortals in the city to heal, then ordered the other army to head to Larsa. They were 4 turns out and they lost 2 Immortals and 1 longbowman while running past 2 Babylonians cities. I saw swordsmen moving toward Larsa. So I did the only thing I could: I attacked Babylon.

I actually took Babylon, but I had no chance of holding it with so many large cultural centers nearby. But it did draw off enough of the swordsman that Larsa fell to my Immortals after a long battle, leaving only 4 units from the original assault to guard the city.

It was an extremely bloody war, much worse than most wars I am used to in Civ. The Babylonians were outclassed by the Immortals, and paid 2:1 in lost units, but even so, Larsa was the most expensive population 1 city I've ever assaulted. Both Babylon and Akkad returned to the Babylonians.

I got the saltpeter, but Babylon did not forgot the vicious attack on their small city. When they finally discovered Gunpowder they realized the importance of Larsa, and started another war involving twice the units of the first. I was more prepared, and hordes of Immortals (and late in the war: Cavalry) streamed into Babylonia. By the end, Babylon had changed hands 6 times, Akkad twice, but I maintained Larsa, and fortified all cities with Musketmen. Babylonia was split in two with many of its former cultural centers in my control.

All that war. I easily lost 30 units just so I could get saltpeter.

Well, to be honest. 30 units bought sole control of saltpeter on my continent. When you look at it that way, It was just the start of a much longer war. By far the most powerful form of warfare now is the giving and taking of strategic resources. In order to ensure my safety, I am depriving everyone of what they need to wage war. This way, they need to remain my friend, if they wish to build an army.

(Edit: Corrected city names)

Last edited by gachnar on 03-11-2001 at 22:10

orange is offline orange
Emperor
It doesn't matter what your name is!
Feb 2000
time: 00:15
  Old Post 03-11-2001 07:15 Visit orange's homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

Awesome review! Can you post a screen shot??

Rommel393 is offline Rommel393
Warlord
USA
Jul 2001
time: 23:15
  Old Post 03-11-2001 10:16
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Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, the game is awesome like that

cyril25376 is offline cyril25376
Warlord
Salzburg, Austria
Jun 2001
time: 07:15
  Old Post 03-11-2001 13:40
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Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Cool story. Yes some screenshot please. How long did you play this game?

gachnar is offline gachnar
Chieftain
Arlington, VA
Nov 2001
time: 00:15
  Old Post 03-11-2001 21:26 Visit gachnar's homepage!
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Game stats Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I dunno. this was maybe 4 hours on Halloween, another the next morning waiting for the Leasing Office to open. Then a few hours that night when all the fun happened.

I'll see if I can get a screenshot of the aftermath of the war.

What I find most shocking is my willingness to go to war over resources... and the AIs willingness to do the same.

However, there are a few other things to take note of:


  • War is expensive. Even with superior units, I could not prevent their loss. Attacks are just too much. I suspect that this wouldnt be the case with Archers v. Tanks, but that never should be an interesting battle.
  • War Weariness is a killer. I might start a new thread to discuss this alone. Democracies suffer debilitating amounts of war weariness. By the end of this war, I think over half my cities were unhappy.
  • For those who like to see the AI do stuff, I actually saw the AI give up on a city. I doubt it did so knowing I wouldn't have the culture to keep it, but it did back away from a fight. I believe the units took off to defend a position not being attacked by 6 Cavalry units. Instead they took out several Immortals. Impressive.
  • Resources are worth it.


I'll see if I can post a screenshot later today

gachnar is offline gachnar
Chieftain
Arlington, VA
Nov 2001
time: 00:15
  Old Post 03-11-2001 22:26 Visit gachnar's homepage!
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Before Get a bigger avatar today!

The start of the war

This is the view of the world right as the war started. The red arrows show my routes of advance/attack.

Now. You cant see much here, even if I would have patched together more screenshots. Both attacking armies are holed up in Akkad right now because they were being attacked by Babylonian units. The turn after this the armies split between the route to Larsa and Babylon, about 3 to Larsa for every 2 to Babylon.

So enjoy. I attached a smaller version.

Attachment: before-tn.jpg
This has been downloaded 336 time(s).

gachnar is offline gachnar
Chieftain
Arlington, VA
Nov 2001
time: 00:15
  Old Post 03-11-2001 22:41 Visit gachnar's homepage!
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Increase Your PM Length

Nearly finished

This is after most of the action. You can see its not quite over, as there is still a large Cav army headed towarad Adab in the west.

This action involved a heavy supporting army from Tyre which was needed to reinforce Larsa, and then push through Samara so the forces there could not reinforce Babylon. Turns out there were enough troops and they were successful enough to take Ellipi also.

Its also evident that my superior forces were not obliterating the Babylonians. Notice that Ulundi was used as the staging point instead of Akkad. I was losing too many units in stray battles while the units were on the way to the staging area.

It made a difference. They were permanently crippled.

As before: Here is a smaller version:

Attachment: after-tn.jpg
This has been downloaded 334 time(s).

Siberian Hamster is offline Siberian Hamster
Settler
Melton Mowbray, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:15
Thumbs up  Old Post 05-11-2001 15:52
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Really enjoyable story and thanks for the screenshots!

I can't wait to get my hands on this baby. Only 2 weeks to go. Oh damn you, Infogrames, you cruel mistress!!

Craftsman is offline Craftsman
Chieftain
São Leopoldo, RS - Brazil
Feb 2001
time: 02:15
  Old Post 06-11-2001 04:25
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Got spare money?

WOW!!! This is like 'The History Channel' !!!

"Tonight, the history of the war that changed the World forever... 'The fall of Larsa' "

I can´t wait to get my hands on civ3, too!!

dnassman is offline dnassman
Warlord
Melbourne, Australia
Sep 2001
time: 15:15
  Old Post 07-11-2001 06:29
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Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks for the story, that was awesome. Can't wait to for those sleepless nights to soon be upon me. Come on the 16th.

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