03-11-2001 01:09									#1
	Frustration! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Whew, lots to like and lots to hate! I see a lot of conversation on some of these topics already, just thought I'd chime in. After several days of experimenting, I want to vent my frustration. And yes, I know this is a different game with different challenges, yadda, yadda, yadda. But I'm having too many "you've gotta be kidding me" moments. I'm playing on regent level, and felt like a wuss, until I saw how many people have cranked it down even further.

-Why is early science so #$%! painful? I'm keeping up with the great library, trading advances with rivals, etc. It's generally much easier to do than in Civ II. But I LIKE being a hermit and brewing up my own technology. Between the painful crawl of research, and the corruption crippling city improvements, I'm usually knocking on my neighbor's door with my hat in my hand. Meanwhile that eerily familiar science advisor ding dong keeps telling me we're falling behind, even while I bankrupt myself on research.

-Yeah, the ICS problem has been "fixed". The AI does it with a vengeance, and you can't. The corruption levels that some have praised as a "challenge" are show stoppers! Sure some governments are more efficient then others. But only in societies where something is SERIOUSLY wrong do you see rampant corruption throttling a nation like this. I never used to put much priority on courthouses- now they're one of the first things I build! I shudder to think how it works on deity level. Do you start on turn 1 hemmed in by 3 enemy cities, with corruption and rioting in your capital?

-I want some VISUAL way to tell if there's more than one unit on a tile.

-I want advance after combat to be optional. Gee, my unit is now a veteran, or elite. Too bad he won't live out the next turn, so I can rest him up.

-I thought caravans were a ***** until I found out how hard it is to get roads all the way to stink'in enemy capitals, since they don't bother themselves to trade with YOU. And don't worry about trade through harbors or airports, either. Who knows when they'll build one for you to connect to?

-As much of a pain as trade is already, you still have to contend with disappearing resources, and trade contracts automatically expiring every 20 turns. How about a renew contract option? How about a choice on treaty duration? How about anything besides the steadily escalating extortion the AI practices as a matter of habit. Gee, if I've got something they want, and they've got something I want, and we're not mad at each other, everything should be ducky, right? Wrong!

-I've figured out how combat works. Attack enemy pikemen, you die. When the enemy attacks YOUR pikemen, you die. If I got that much mileage out of a pikeman, I'd never build anything else! The combat mechanics are pretty straightforward, and IMHO, more elegant that Civ II's. But even after taking every variable into account, I can't figure out why the enemy units are so much more effective then mine- except that maybe the deck is stacked against me.

Believe it or not, I don't hate Civ III. But if I had to nail my first week's experience with one word, that word would be FRUSTRATION.

	03-11-2001 01:44									#2
	Re: Frustration! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by mrbilll -Why is early science so #$%! painful? I'm keeping up with the great library, trading advances with rivals, etc. It's generally much easier to do than in Civ II. But I LIKE being a hermit and brewing up my own technology. Between the painful crawl of research, and the corruption crippling city improvements, I'm usually knocking on my neighbor's door with my hat in my hand. Meanwhile that eerily familiar science advisor ding dong keeps telling me we're falling behind, even while I bankrupt myself on research.

Agreed.

quote: -Yeah, the ICS problem has been "fixed". The AI does it with a vengeance, and you can't. The corruption levels that some have praised as a "challenge" are show stoppers! Sure some governments are more efficient then others. But only in societies where something is SERIOUSLY wrong do you see rampant corruption throttling a nation like this. I never used to put much priority on courthouses- now they're one of the first things I build! I shudder to think how it works on deity level. Do you start on turn 1 hemmed in by 3 enemy cities, with corruption and rioting in your capital?

Agreed.

quote: -I want some VISUAL way to tell if there's more than one unit on a tile.

There is, small white-gray rectangles on the bottom left corner of the tile.

quote: -I want advance after combat to be optional. Gee, my unit is now a veteran, or elite. Too bad he won't live out the next turn, so I can rest him up.

Also agreed. Just like it was in Civ2.

quote: -I thought caravans were a ***** until I found out how hard it is to get roads all the way to stink'in enemy capitals, since they don't bother themselves to trade with YOU. And don't worry about trade through harbors or airports, either. Who knows when they'll build one for you to connect to?

It should be hard to make trade routes, but I agree that the AI doesnt do enough by himself.

quote: -As much of a pain as trade is already, you still have to contend with disappearing resources, and trade contracts automatically expiring every 20 turns. How about a renew contract option? How about a choice on treaty duration? How about anything besides the steadily escalating extortion the AI practices as a matter of habit. Gee, if I've got something they want, and they've got something I want, and we're not mad at each other, everything should be ducky, right? Wrong!

------

One more rant:
I offer Cleopatra three 3 size cities, three techs, 200 gold and world&territory maps. All this for one small 1 size city stuck in the middle of my empire. WTF she declines???
The AI is way too hostile in negotiations.

	03-11-2001 01:51									#3
	Got spare money?

I found a way to sort of get around the crazy demands the AI makes sometimes, without pissing them off.

It only works if there is some opportunity for trade (Ie. Not a "give us this for free or die situation"). I usually just hit the lets change the deal button, and just give them 10-20 gold for free as a gift.

They are usually happy, and I dont have to pay 100 gold for their stupid territory map. Its a bit Gamey, but hey, what can you do.

	03-11-2001 02:01									#4
	Re: Re: Frustration! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Eli One more rant: I offer Cleopatra three 3 size cities, three techs, 200 gold and world&territory maps. All this for one small 1 size city stuck in the middle of my empire. WTF she declines??? The AI is way too hostile in negotiations.

While I won't comment on the AI diplomacy... why bother giving away anything? Just culture-capture the city.

	03-11-2001 02:07									#5
	Tired of ads?

Because spending all my efforts on defending 3 useless cities instead of playing my usual perfectionist style is annoying. And i'm far for culture takeover of that city.

	03-11-2001 02:59									#6
	Tired of ads?

Damn it. Your comments make it even harder for me to remain «legal»

I want my game NOW!

But I'll hang on until the bright morning of the 16 November.

From what you say it seems like a challenge for a change.

But from all the frustration comments I'm beggining to fear wether it will be something like DEITY in Civ 2. When the AI simply uses crude means to bring you to your knees and makes all the game extremely miserable INMHO.

Challenge is one thing, beating you down senseless with illogical means is another. Let's hope we are not yet used to the new game