06-08-2000 23:29									#1
	New Cold War scenario Remove this text

Im currently making scenario about Cold War. It starts from the end of ww2 and ends to collapse of Soviet Union (45-91). All ideas/hepl would be welcome.

I also need map that includes only northern part of globe so it can be more accurate than original world maps. If somebody has one/wants to make one for me i would preciated.

	07-08-2000 03:39									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You too? I think Djug was working on something similar. He goes by John Lenin now, maybe you could contact him?

	07-08-2000 04:19									#3
	Support Apolyton

Be sure to have many different types of Nukes with good movement range.

	07-08-2000 06:55									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Nukes? I personally don't like nukes unless there is a defense available. I know they were vital in the Cold War, but the AI obviously doesn't believe in MAD, how about just missiles as nukes? (ie: like a cruise missile, takes out only one unit) And there are sooo many types of tanks, planes, etc. that using up so many spaces for nukes might be a bit wasteful.

	07-08-2000 16:31									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Look for the polar view map. One of the best. And remember, the Cold War was almost 10 years old before anyone had missiles to do the dirty work.

	07-08-2000 19:42									#6
	Remove this text

Thanks for usefull tips to all of you. Djug is making Cold War scenario too? Hmm yes i really should contact him.

Yes there will be many different type of nukes.

Hey what do you say about idea that it would take 2 turns to nuke to get to target? Like it would move 15 hexes at first turn and after that enemy could try to shoot them down with ABM-missiles if he has any? And if he isnt able to shoot them down they will reach target next turn...

It would be much more realistic than just adding SDI Defenses. Those ABM-missiles would cost much so building good ABM System would be really expensive.

Hey that polar view map is a really good idea! I will use that...

One nice thing in this scenario is that it starts right after ww2 so when playing USSR/West Europe you have to rebuild your country.

	08-08-2000 09:35									#7
	Support Apolyton

Thats a good idea with the ABM. You could also make the techs to nukes an event or something to keep it more realistic.

Since I'm assuming that this is a European scenario have an event announcing the Cuban Missle Crises and so forth.

------------------
What if the Hokey-Pokey is really what its all about?

Contact me at cpoland@mail.win.org

	07-08-2000 22:47									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I don't think moving it only 15 spaces would work as I'm sure the AI would get around that somehow and nuke the hell out of the player anyway. And unless the target is within 15 spaces, the player almost has no chance because the AI has an unlimited supply of cruise missiles.

	08-08-2000 01:06									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Only a question: if there are so many different nukes ready to strike in your scn, it wouldn´t be about Cold War, more about a Hot War, no?

Ah, I forgot...why do you only include the northern part of the world? Dirty wars like Vietnam or Afghanistan played an important role during cold war. You could create some Special Forces that can act behind the enemy lines.

And how do you solve the problem with Berlin (eastern/western part?).
[This message has been edited by BeBro (edited August 07, 2000).]

	08-08-2000 19:44									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You could just place east and west Berlin as two seperate cities only one space apart...but that might be a bit awkward...you could just use an airbase to simulate West Berlin.

	09-08-2000 00:00									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Tech-tree, most of units, terrain, US and Chine are done now. You can check screenshot from the scenario from http://www.geocities.com/jonscave/cw_sample1.jpg

Yeah i really love that idea about ABM too. You cant ever get 100% defense against nukes. And now you need to build LOTS of nukes like in reallife to be sure that enough nukes are able to reach enemys country and destroy it.

Yes i could make techs to nukes come from event but i still prefer you have to discover those techs yourself. I just have to make it so you discover them in right time (lots of testing).

I will make Cuban Missile Crisis, Korean, Vietnam and Afganistan wars appearing from a event.

Movement rate of nukes will be something like 25 in a turn now. I will not give cruise missiles ability to attack to air so nukes are safe from them.

No no no...you dont have any nukes when scenario starts (except US has few Atom Bombs). You have to discover nukes and massproduce them after that.

With northen part of world i mean everything northen than equator so Vietnam and Afganistan will be in the scn too. Special Forces...thanks for the tip...i will maybe is them.

But that problem with Berlin is harder...there arent enough space for two cities (East Berlin/West Berlin). Hmm...but problem with using an airport would be that Soviets would demand US to withdraw their forces from near of their city.

	09-08-2000 00:35									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Like the screenshot. If you could have an event that changes the Railroads to Highways would be nice to simulate authenticity in the U.S. and Developed Europe. That isn't a "must". Looks good!



------------------
What if the Hokey-Pokey is really what its all about?

Contact me at cpoland@mail.win.org

	09-08-2000 01:01									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I've heard that you can hex edit the location of cities and be able to have 2 cities next to each other.

	09-08-2000 01:02									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I've heard that you can hex edit the location of cities and be able to have 2 cities next to each other.

	09-08-2000 01:23									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

How about a special unit called "West Berlin", it could be a caravan unit so it won't be asked to withdraw. Maybe a carrier flag too?

	09-08-2000 01:24									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Also, at the start of the scenario, will there be war already or will there be peace between nations?

Yes, this was a DP, shut up
[This message has been edited by Mao (edited August 08, 2000).]

	09-08-2000 05:33									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

IIRC, it didn't work out right when AL tried to make Buda and Pest right next to each other.

IMO it's easier to just use an airbase.

	09-08-2000 06:51									#18
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

But shouldn't West Berlin also have some troops there?

	09-08-2000 07:14									#19
	Put an end to popups!

Just planes and copters.

	09-08-2000 08:46									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

But won't the Soviets just ask the western units to withdraw?

	09-08-2000 14:51									#21
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Why would they? IGNORE ZONES OF CONTROL.

	09-08-2000 16:10									#22
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

That won't work because of their role. Only role 7 (trade) units are excluded from a withdrawal. Ignore ZOC only applies to units moving next to enemy units.

Jonicro: there's a map of the Northern Hemisphere knocking around somewhere. Try in the Apolyton Archives (not the database). Filename will be something like Northem.mp.

City locations can be hex-edited to transplant a city, so you can found East/West Berlin at different locations and then hack the file so that they're next to each other. But why would you want to?

Anyway I'd like to see a decent job made of this. I've just been playing Coldwarx v.2, which was lacking somewhat.

------------------
"The man who can smile when things go wrong has thought of someone he can blame it on"

	09-08-2000 16:41									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

BTW, Jonicro, if you implement West Berlin as a regular city (with hex-editing or so), it should be able to generate spys (perhaps renamed as CIA agents?). The western part of the city played a major role in espionage...

And Fast_Eddie, I think there were some more US, British and French units as planes and helis here in my city...

	09-08-2000 17:33									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Hey Eddie, can I give out some of the ideas we discussed?

EG, make nuclear bombers as 99 attack units that are not destroyed after attacking. This way subs can't pick them up. But when their nuke goes off, the unit dies since it is in a square adjacent to the blast.

Also, I was trying to simulate a thermonuclear blast by experimenting with the changeterrain event. But I can't figure that one out.

Finally, you should realize that this "cold" war will be hot from day one as far as the computer is concerned. To prevent immediate hostilities you have to figure out some way to keep the AI occupied.

	09-08-2000 20:59									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Today i placed cities in india and made final touches to W. Europe and China.

I will also maybe make a police unit that can spot spies and is used to guard borders. I already have graphic for normal police unit (US, Europe) but i still need graphic for militia unit (USSR, China). So if anybody knows where i can get a good one it would be great.

Jcarkey, im happy to hear that you like screenshot. I will think about that railroad -> highway thing.

Im not familiar with hexediting but i will try that today if that works. If not guess i will just made "West Berlin" unit.

Mao, yes there is peace when scenario starts. And this is not totally a war scenario. For example when playing USSR you have to:
1. Rebuild western parts of country that are destroyed in ww2.
2. Build your economy/industry stronger.
3. Support Communists in their revolutions in all over world (Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, South America, Afganistan...)
4. Compete with US in space rate.
5. Build LOTS of nukes able to destroy US if necessery.
6. If youre doing really good you can even try to build good ABM-System but that would be really expensive...

Andrew, I already have a good map for my scenario and im placing cities now. Yes, i will do my best with this scenario.

I will post tomorrow more screenshots here.

	10-08-2000 00:28									#26
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hmm using AC feature for space race is really good idea...thought making all those parts would take maybe even too much resources...hmm i still have to think about this.

Currently space race is done so you have to develop techs and when you get 'Moon Flight' you can build Wonder with that name. Its also so when you develop 'Space Flight' you can choose do you want more make a Moon Flight or Space Station...you dont have time to make both because other side will take another. This simulates that in real-life USs main goal was to be first in moon while Russians were more interested about building space station.

Oh yeah and some help would be great with one thing...If someone could collect a list of conflicts in years 45-91 and were part of cold war (Korea, Vietnam, those communist revolutions in South-America and Africa, Afganistan, ect.). I need the sides who fought and year. Thank you.

	10-08-2000 00:30									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hmm using AC feature for space race is really good idea...thought making all those parts would take maybe even too much resources...hmm i still have to think about this.

Currently space race is done so you have to develop techs and when you get 'Moon Flight' you can build Wonder with that name. Its also so when you develop 'Space Flight' you can choose do you want more make a Moon Flight or Space Station...you dont have time to make both because other side will take another. This simulates that in real-life USs main goal was to be first in moon while Russians were more interested about building space station.

Oh yeah and some help would be great with one thing...If someone could collect a list of conflicts in years 45-91 and were part of cold war (Korea, Vietnam, those communist revolutions in South-America and Africa, Afganistan, ect.). I need the sides who fought and year. Thank you.

	10-08-2000 00:31									#28
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hmm using AC feature for space race is really good idea...thought making all those parts would take maybe even too much resources...hmm i still have to think about this.

Currently space race is done so you have to develop techs and when you get 'Moon Flight' you can build Wonder with that name. Its also so when you develop 'Space Flight' you can choose do you want more make a Moon Flight or Space Station...you dont have time to make both because other side will take another. This simulates that in real-life USs main goal was to be first in moon while Russians were more interested about building space station.

Oh yeah and some help would be great with one thing...If someone could collect a list of conflicts in years 45-91 and were part of cold war (Korea, Vietnam, those communist revolutions in South-America and Africa, Afganistan, ect.). I need the sides who fought and year. Thank you.

	10-08-2000 00:45									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, I'd rather you not...

	10-08-2000 02:54									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Would the Moon Voyage and Space Station just be another technology? Is there any tangible advantage to going for either?