03-11-2001 09:01									#1
	resources slowing down the game... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Im playing England on cheiftan.. why? I wanna win once.

Im way ahead of everyone, I'm at peace with everyone.

I get steam engine and no coal for me... ok thats bad luck. nevermind I conrtol 1/5 the earths surface and with 8 civs there should be at least 8 coals on the map.

Ive traded world maps with everyone... I can only find *3* coal, 2 in aztec land and on in American land. They have roads over one each..

so there's no surplus of coal.. anywhere, and I can trade with every civ. I'm gonna have to sit here until they get to steam engine, build a road to that extra coal, and *hope* they trade it to me. I'm totally stuck because I am too far ahead.

There are a lot of things throttling this game.. keeping you close to the computer opponents. Now I see it's just impossible to run away with the game and have some good old fashioned fun.

I guess Im gonna quit this one, it sucks to have atomic theory.. but still no railroads.

I'm having a hard time enjoying this game, I can't even win big when I try to stack the deck!

	03-11-2001 09:39									#2
	Suffering from ads?

One of the annoying things about coal is that it is most likely to appear on squares that were jungle at the beginning of the game. With the random map generator, I noticed only 1 or 2 coals that were on mountains or hills on the few huge maps I generated. The rest was in the middle of the jungle, packed together. I hope that I can somehow tweak this generator so that it makes mountains and hills the preffered terrain for coal. It is good if you have to work to get all the resources, but making it possible to monopolize a strategic resource by controlling one small coal rich patch of jungle definitely ruins gameplay.

	03-11-2001 09:56									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

How about this:

France has two Oil, both in their territory with roads. over them.

I have no oil.

I can trade with France

Oil does not appear as a tradeable resource for France.

Why the heck not? Because they havent discovered refining yet? Who cares! If I wanna pay them for that useless muck in the ground they should want the money!

Its only been two turns since I discovered refining and the oil appeard so I dont think they are trading it to someone else already.

This is frustratingly useless.

	03-11-2001 09:58									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yeah, resource scarcity seems to be a big problem. Can we up the amount of resources in the editor?

	03-11-2001 10:01									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yeah, resource scarcity seems to be a big problem. Can we up the amount of resources in the editor?

Yes. You can expand the terrain types that resources can be found in as well if you think coal is too scarce.


Dan

	03-11-2001 10:06									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Thanks Dan! I think I'll go looking in the editor .

But first one (somewhat boring) game first, so I can see a pre-edited Civ3.

	03-11-2001 10:07									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Its not just too scarce, its the way its distributed and the negligence of other civs...

in my above example I got my glasses out and managed to find 6 of the supposed 8 coals. (its tough to do in the dark foggy area).

5 - count 'em 5, are in aztec land with a road over only one.

And even if he had roads on them all it looks like it doesnt matter. In another thread I commented how France had 2 oil's, and roads over both. But it was not available for trade.. because France isnt up to refining yet?

Im way ahead in everything but I cant build most units cause all the oil and coal is on the othe side of the globe held by civs that aren't able to trade it. I cant fight for it, if I manage to get all the way over there and take a city they will either take it back, or more likely absorb it with culture.

I am completely stuck... through no fault of my own. I hope you can appreciate how disappointing that is after 10 hours in the game.

	03-11-2001 10:35									#8
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Stretch Its not just too scarce, its the way its distributed and the negligence of other civs... in my above example I got my glasses out and managed to find 6 of the supposed 8 coals. (its tough to do in the dark foggy area). 5 - count 'em 5, are in aztec land with a road over only one. And even if he had roads on them all it looks like it doesnt matter. In another thread I commented how France had 2 oil's, and roads over both. But it was not available for trade.. because France isnt up to refining yet? Im way ahead in everything but I cant build most units cause all the oil and coal is on the othe side of the globe held by civs that aren't able to trade it. I cant fight for it, if I manage to get all the way over there and take a city they will either take it back, or more likely absorb it with culture. I am completely stuck... through no fault of my own. I hope you can appreciate how disappointing that is after 10 hours in the game.

Ummm, shouldn't you just take the CIVS over? If your units are as bad as theres than you just stack the odds against them and plan a attack. If the AI is so good that a determined human BRAIN cant defeat it then im amazed...

Its challenges like the ones you described that make the game a game. You have to find a way to win, ocasionaly deviate from the path. Otherwise theres no fun. If your frustrated that its to easy to get ahead in science than INCREASE THE DIFFICULTY! If the other civs wont trade, make them 'yo *****es' . If coal is to rare than edit the game, but wasent the game created so not EVERYTHING is yours but instead you have to trade for it? Isn't this what everyone asked for?

	03-11-2001 10:41									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It has little to do with the AI being "smarter" when the game more closely resembles poker than chess (At least in his situation.)

	03-11-2001 11:08									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I appreciate your point of view, splangy, and I'd love to to just that..

but it's been demonstrated that between corruption and culture it jus tisnt feasible to attack a CIV that is exactly halfway across the map from you and expect any sucess.

Suppose I take a couple cities in the first mass assault:

Scenario 1: massive retaliation by the AI (its good at this now) which I can't match because of distance to get reinforcements, and I cant build but one unit a turn at considerable expense.

Scenario 2: 10 turns later I am absorbed by their culture.

If the resources were a manageble distance away I'd go kick some booty. With the improved AI and the culture aspect I have no chance.

I am not saying that I think good AI and culture are bad things...I am saying it would be nice if:

1) a strategic resource was spread out a little better than 80% with one CIV

and more importantly

2) if a civ has the resources but hasnt reached the requisite tech to use it.. ALLOW IT TO BE TRADED! The civ (aztech) with the coal resource has roads over three of them now. And they are not listed as tradeable while his stupid dye is! I'd pay out the butt for them but NOOooo...

its #2 that angers me more than #1... I could acceppt #1 if I had any way of getting at them via #2.

And its not the AI saying "I know you need them and I wont give it up"... its not listed as available at all!

	03-11-2001 11:20									#11
	yea Full PM-box? Change here!

I guess Im gonna quit this one, it sucks to have atomic theory.. but still no railroads.

I'm having a hard time enjoying this game, I can't even win big when I try to stack the deck!
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I feel your pain brotha! I have to quit all the time cause I play on warlord and I cannot balance my gamespy out maybe.

don't cut them jungles. wait , you need to so you can grow food on grassland! ARGGGHH These real life debtable issues!


I am say one thing, this is a lot moe realistic then the others, so realistic it realistically makes me insane!!! that I just want to throw my ocmputer caues I have to restart after all my hard work cause some ******* AI onws the **** out of me.

sorry for my laungauge.....I am going to break somethig right now

	03-11-2001 11:30									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yah you're absolutely right, it *is* more realistic.

And it would totally rock IF IF IF IF

and I cant repeat this enough (Firaxis):

A civ which has access to strategic resources but does not have a use for them yet (because they are behind in tech) should be able and willing to trade them anyway, for the proper cost, even if said cost is huge. As it stands it appears they cannot trade them at all, period. Apparently I have no access to them until they catch up to me in tech, which is too much to ask.

	03-11-2001 11:37									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Total agreement. I should be able to trade for things I know have value, but the other civ doesn't.

	03-11-2001 12:07									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Why can't you just give them the tech they need to "discover" their resource and then trade for it?

	03-11-2001 12:19									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why? Because then they'll realize why it is so valuable and won't trade then . That is what happened to me. I think I might be the only civ without the ability to use guns now.

	03-11-2001 20:33									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Fortunately in my game, I seem to be controlling a lot of the resources. I will soon be developing fission, so I hope some uranium falls within my borders too