04-11-2001 06:45									#1
	Gripes about bartering/ I need help Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Whenever the computer contacts me, it always wants to trade territorial maps. Which is fine, but the computer, wants my map and a tech advnace. This is usually, when the computer has not been growing, so nothing has really changed, that I would need to know about. But meanwhile, I have grown, or put a few cities on some other continent. So, why does the comp want so much from me? On a few occasions the comp also wants a large sum of gold, in addition to the tech. Why would the comp, not want to upgrade their own maps? Especially, when they are contacting me. I did not contact them.

Also, something happened just now, that really bothers me. I offered to trade luxuries with a civ. I occupied all of Africa, so, I have incense/gems/spices. I offered to trade one of those luxuries with another civ. My advisor says that they would be insulted by this deal. I then offer 3 of my luxuries for 1 of theirs. My advisor says that they would probably accept that deal. So, finally, I click the "you make an offer button" The other civ wanted 2 of my luxuries/contact with another civ/ and 2 tech advances. So, really, 5 things from me, for 20 turns of some luxury. Is it me, or is this completely screwed up? I mean, what idiot, would not just do 1 on 1. Your people go nuts, when they get that other luxury. I do not understand, what I am supposed to do here. I find it difficult that with all the thought put into this "new" resource thingy, why the AI would not be into it. The screwy AI, is making it, really not worth the luxury trading. Also, What is the deal, with the Comp not building harbors? Alot of the other civs take their sweet time building harbors, when they have a ton of stuff to trade. You would think, that the civs with something to trade would build a harbor quickly.

Anyways, any input would be appreciated.

	04-11-2001 06:52									#2
	Notes on Trade. Put an end to popups!

what was the other civ's feeling towards you.

A civ your on good terms with will demand less during trade.

when i trade luxurys or resoures i can usely trade 1 for 1 if I offer a lump sum of 100 gold while playing on the warlord diff. if they are on good terms with me.

Delbert

	04-11-2001 06:54									#3
	Support Apolyton

Yeah, the AI is pretty dumb with it comes to deals. Occasionally I could see where they might try and extort a weaker civilization through threats, but not constantly and not on regular trades. Another thing I've noticed is when you sign a 20-turn deal, like a diplomatic agreement or luxury\resource trade, at the end of the 20 turns, they never have any interest in renewing the contract unless you give them more and more every time. Really annoying.

LR

	04-11-2001 07:10									#4
	on trade Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

in my own experence, if i've stayed on good terms with the civ then when it comes time to renew the trade I just offer the same deal resourse for resourse plus 100 gold lump sum and most of the time they renewed.. of course so far i've only traded with 2 other civs on a reg basis in my last game.. one silk for coal and the other silk for rubber.

Delbert

	04-11-2001 08:04									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If you are going for a diplomatic victory, give them what they want!

Otherwise, you can deny their requests. I don't think it is odd for civs that are behind in techs and stuff to ask 'big brother' for some help.


Hey, it happens in the real world too!

	04-11-2001 11:15									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I like that the computer tries to get what it can. Zululand keeps upping the price of the furs he trades to me ever twenty turn, and if I keep paying for it... thats good AI, IMO.

BUT.... what is making me mad is this

They Give We Give
Territory Map Territory Map
50 Gold

I can see if its a massive empire much larger and better than mine... but this seems to be the norm. Any Civ I try to trade with will never just 'even up' trade maps. I think this is a little screwy.

Why should their maps ALWAYS be worth more than mine.

Is this unique to the game I'm playing (my first) or are others encountering the same issue?