04-11-2001 08:12									#1
	Correct me is I am wrong, but i believer there was alot of corruption in the old days Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I only started to play the game and am only in a few turns.

How come everyone is crying about corruption? That is life. IT'S happening right now even in Democracies like in the USA and in Canada and everywhere else. It dosnt matter what goverment you have there is corruption everywhere.

I laugh when it says Democracies have no coruption. The US Senate is Corupt Just as our Canadian goverment is also. They all look for them selfs.

Why cry about it? What dont I see? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Davor

	04-11-2001 08:39									#2
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The reason is that corruption is out of hand. In Civ2, I could have a city as distant from my capital as humanly possible with Despotism, and it wouldn't have the same corruption penalties as a city that is 40 squares away from my captial in Civ3 does now. It makes getting a decent sized empire difficult, and nearly downright impossible (even with teh Forbidden Palace)

	04-11-2001 08:42									#3
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The corruption under democracy is still pretty problematic. I have 2 shields and 3 commerce wasted in my capital cities(courthouses are presnt). Not to mention the rest of empire.

	04-11-2001 08:58									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Shadowstrike The reason is that corruption is out of hand. In Civ2, I could have a city as distant from my capital as humanly possible with Despotism, and it wouldn't have the same corruption penalties as a city that is 40 squares away from my captial in Civ3 does now. It makes getting a decent sized empire difficult, and nearly downright impossible (even with teh Forbidden Palace)

I strongly agree with that.

And reducing this excessive corruption has nothing to do with making the game easier (as some have claimed) since decreasing corruption would actually help the AI (to those who haven't noticed they expand like mad & breed like rabbits - this is not the Civ2 AI). The 2 things Soren stated affect corruption are the # of cities & distance from the capital/forbidden palace. Someone mentioned how in the editor they altered the # of "optimal cities" from the regular number (was 8 or 16?) to 200+ & they STILL had these excessive corruption problems. Thus, the corruption relating to the # of cities is fine, but the corruption relating to distance from the capital is extreme & flawed.

I'm just glad Firaxis is reading the boards to care what we think. Hopefully they will use some of our suggestions.

	04-11-2001 09:02									#5
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Yolky:
Pick a civ with Commerical attribute (lowers corruption). Play on a tiny map and build at least 1/2 the land mass with cities (but have no city zone overlap). Now switch to Democracy and build courthouses in each city. Also make sure to build the forbidden temple. Also make sure to build temple, cathedral and collesum in each city to maximse happyness. Now check the percentage of your income lost to corruption for your empire....will be quite surprising.

Now continue to build cities to cover the whole land mass with no city overlap and make sure to build temple, courthouse, cathedral and collesum in each. Check your commerce lost to corruption again for your empire....last I checked mine was at over 62% in 2 different games.

Last edited by Valant on 04-11-2001 at 09:44

	04-11-2001 09:28									#6
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Valant,
Thanks for advise about comercial civs. I usually try to bulid culture expanding buildings as soon as possible, still it took me around 78 turns to build a forbidden palace. Later in the game I just buy whatever I want.

	04-11-2001 09:34									#7
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Um maybe you did not see my point. Even after doing EVERYTHING possible to keep corruption minimized I still had an overall corruption rate over 60%. Now remember this is after doing everything humanly possible to minimize it. Don't you think this is kinda out of whack?

	04-11-2001 09:41									#8
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oops, you're right, I didn't get your point first. Not surpriced then with my corruption level under Iroques.

	04-11-2001 09:47									#9
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Oops on my part as well. Meant to direct my origional responce to Yolky. When you add a post to a thread it reverses the order of the posts listed on the add post to thread page. Accidentally took your name off the top during my origional reply (which was the most recent responce) when I wanted the name of the thread origionator (which was at the bottom). I edited my origional post to direct to the right person. Sorry for the goof up.

	04-11-2001 10:30									#10
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Yap, corruption is deffinatly a big issue that the developers failed on. I am currently playing a game where its a small map and I have a city thats only about 20 squars away with a courthouse thats facing almost 92% corruption!@! WTF!! No offense Firaxis but, come on!! With democracy, a courthouse I should at least get about 60%. Heck if this was real life our country (USA) would be toast due to the distance from Washington to LA. Although it might explain some things about LA....
Eitherway this really needs to be addressed in a patch. Tone it down a bit. Heck even 80% would be a boon for my Civ.

Wolf

	04-11-2001 10:35									#11
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Corruption now is very stifling. I am playing on the normal sized earth map, not the huge one, and I have a capital in Eastern Europe and a city in central Africa with 90% corruption. I am a democracy and have a court house, which I had to hurry because previously to having it I was only getting 1 production per turn and wasting 10. I find it a bit ridiculous to have a city only a couple of screens away from the capital of a democracy, that is literally choking due to corruption, even with a court house.

(I like the game, there are just some annoying aspects which I think they should change)

	04-11-2001 11:30									#12
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If you are keeping your cities happy (we love the king day), then corruption isn't so bad. In CivII and SMAC, is was easy to get away with not making your cities be in WLTK, but not in CivIII. Trade for resources and keep things under control.

I still disagree that corruption is that much of a problem if handled properly.

	04-11-2001 23:53									#13
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Thanks for your replies. I will keep them in mind. Right now I am playing the Romans so maybe thats why I am not seeing that problem right now.

Davor

	05-11-2001 00:26									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba If you are keeping your cities happy (we love the king day), then corruption isn't so bad. In CivII and SMAC, is was easy to get away with not making your cities be in WLTK, but not in CivIII. Trade for resources and keep things under control. I still disagree that corruption is that much of a problem if handled properly.

I have every city celebrating now with 6 luxuries, but I'm still getting insane corruption about 20 squares from my capital. In Democracy. On Chieftain. With Courthouses. I shudder to think how much ICSing wil be needed on Deity (since the excessive corruption makes every city 1 shield only, nothing stops you from making them like jackrabbits, and by building some culture, you can keep from losing cities)

A somewhat related problem is that the cities grow way to fast. I can leave a city there and when I come back to it to build something its size 5 already! Recall that in Civ2, your defender unit was done before the city hit size 4, unless you have to buy the guy,

	05-11-2001 05:38									#15
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I guess I shouldn't moan until I've figured everything out. I just jacked up the luxuries to get them celebrating and the corruption has been reduced to only 60%. Still outrageous for such a close city, but at least I can build the Forbidden Palace while I have them celebrating, and the corruption won't be so bad after that...it's very expensive though.