04-11-2001 11:45									#1
	irrigation and salt water Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I usually play on the archipelago setting, enjoying the more peaceful gameplay that gives. The algorithm to create the island tend to create very serpentive islands, however, and this is where my problems starts. In my last game I did not have one single source of fresh water. I had to go to war with my neighbours to get access to a lake... Only to realize that I couldn't lead the water past a mountain range.


At that point I had invested about three hours in the game, and decided to stick it out. It didn't look that bad at the time, I had just killed off the Babylonians and the progress seemed pretty good. Then I got republic, and my core cities just got left behind... Five hours wasted time, just because I didn't have a river.

Now, would it really be so hard to ensure that there is a river at the starting point? Wasn't this implemented in one of the civ products already?

Finally, I think the rule is quite silly as it is. While I can understand not being able to irrigate in the desert without a fresh water source, in my last game I had a fairly large patch of jungle adjacent. It is pretty simple, isn't it? If there is a jungle, there obviously is fresh water around... Likewise with forest.

Firaxis, for your next patch (sobbing quitely about the need to ask for a patchfix less than a week after release... CTP, I blame you) could you at least include an option for the fresh water rule?

Thanks!

	04-11-2001 11:49									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I won't lie to you- not every starting position is great. I was playing as the Egyptians once, and sure enough, I started in a valley surrounded by mountains! Not too good on my War Chariot radials

And I wouldn't exactly call Jungle water 'fresh'.

	04-11-2001 12:06									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The point though is ancient civilisations always started next to a river due to the great many functions it provides. So I think the game should provide a source of freshwater to all starting civs, be it a lake or a river.

	04-11-2001 12:11									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Don't forget you can use diagnol sqaures now. Any square diagnol to fresh water, or river, or irrigation can also be irrigated.

Also unless I am mistaken you can string it through a city, if you irrigate by a city, any of the nine sqaures surrounding it may also be irrigated.

This mountain range, big or small? Now, I *think* in theory you could waste a few settlers and string some cities to get over the range and water would be connected through all of them. Again, I've never tried this but it might work.

	04-11-2001 12:17									#5
	True 'dat. Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger The point though is ancient civilisations always started next to a river due to the great many functions it provides. So I think the game should provide a source of freshwater to all starting civs, be it a lake or a river.

]

Amen. It's so unrealistic for ANY civilization to have started without a freshwater source that it's not even worth delving into. Civilization was borne out of the transition from nomadic life to sedentary (agricultural) life, and agriculture on the scale that civilizations need requires some kind of water (almost always fresh)! This is why the Earth maps sucked (shiat for rivers!) and why randomization algorithms should be reworked to include more freshwater. Better yet, go back to saltwater irrigation as I posted elsewhere... You shouldn't have to restart the game several times to get a suitable starting location for a civilization!