04-11-2001 12:33									#1
	do civs make unreasonable negotiations? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

is it just me, or do the civs all try to rip you off completely? I always play regent, i dont know if that has anything to do with it? This game im playing now i am the most advanced, strongest army, culture beyond any of the other civ's imagination (every race is "in awe of" my culture) yet they always try to rip me off on trades!!! If i ask for ivory form germany, he wants wine, incense AND a tech! if i want gems form england, she wants wine, and 2 techs! Meanwhile i could just take the resources by force with a swift easy military campaign. I thought civs now know fear and are respectful of higher culture?

	04-11-2001 12:41									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yep, its tough to get stuff from the ai. I noticed that they will trade you a tech cheaper if you are currently reasearching it and are nearing completion, but they generally demand quite a lot.

	04-11-2001 13:36									#3
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Yes, I think the AI tries to scam you. In Civ2 you could trade techs one for one but in Civ3 its one of their techs for two of yours or one of yours plus some cash. It doesn't really bother me yet. But I'm sure once I start playing on the higher levels every piece of gold will count.

	04-11-2001 13:48									#4
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Lemme tell ya somethin' kid, ..those Civ's are worse than used car salesmen

	04-11-2001 13:52									#5
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is it just me, or do the civs all try to rip you off completely? I always play regent, i dont know if that has anything to do with it? This game im playing now i am the most advanced, strongest army, culture beyond any of the other civ's imagination (every race is "in awe of" my culture) yet they always try to rip me off on trades!!! If i ask for ivory form germany, he wants wine, incense AND a tech! if i want gems form england, she wants wine, and 2 techs! Meanwhile i could just take the resources by force with a swift easy military campaign. I thought civs now know fear and are respectful of higher culture?
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STOP RIGHT THERE! how do you become in this state!!!! I cannot balance my gameplay out. i am either high culture lower military. less military more sience and money. more expansion, less army. BUT of course the can do 2 of these at once. *#&^

FUK I am going to go break something! AI MAKES ME MENTEL AS SH*T!!!

	04-11-2001 14:37									#6
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Hehe, the AI gets pretty retarded in negotations. I went to war with the Americans because they kept demanding a tech and gold from me for one of their techs. I finally got fed up, took over all of their cities but 2. Went to negotations again. They wouldn't sign the peace treaty unless I included a tech and money in the deal. I almost fell over laughing when they did it. They wouldn't back down either, had to eventually finish them off.

	04-11-2001 15:42									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ok so I was the Russians trading with the Germans and I managed to give up my world map and Monarchy and I got like 4 techs and 50 gold. I noticed that as I added techs, the advisor kept sayin' "this deal will probably be accepted."

Bzzzzzzzzz
Fwap!

My first Civ3 AI exploitation.

	04-11-2001 17:45									#8
	Hmmm... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

(NOTE: Until I get reaquainted with Civ-style, I'm still playing Chieftain. Going from Transcend on SMAC to Chieftain on Civ 3 is still a lot...)

Odd, the AI loves me. I trade my Iron for Inscence and 30 gold per turn... and some techs for 100 gold per turn...

Is it that different on the higher difficulties?

	04-11-2001 17:52									#9
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It depends how powerful you are compared to them, if you have a weaker military but more technology they will stomp all over you and abuse you, often demanding technology. If you have a strong military and weak technology, they won't be so quick to war - but they won't take you seriously and will often make outrageous demands. if you are their equal - they will treat you like one (more or less.. depending on the civs personalities), if you are superior to them, they might do a bit of sucking up.

	04-11-2001 18:09									#10
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My experiences seem to indicate that unless the AI REALLY needs something you have (like saltpeter in the musketman age), it wants to 'win' every trade deal it conducts. It also puts a surprising (to me) value on maps, and will offer remarkable stuff for them.

	04-11-2001 18:39									#11
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Yes yes yes.

When you offer them some luxury resource they dont have in exchange for some luxury you dont have it's a win win situation but they still dont accept it.

One, I offered 3 techs, 4 cities(size 3-4) and couple hundreds of Gold for one size 1 city. And they didnt agree.

	04-11-2001 18:41									#12
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err... why did you make that offer anyway? oh well, sounds like land for peace policy

	04-11-2001 18:42									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Eli One, I offered 3 techs, 4 cities(size 3-4) and couple hundreds of Gold for one size 1 city. And they didnt agree.

I don't believe that they put any value on cities in trade agreements - they never give them up, and offering them in your side of the deal doesn't improve it any.

	04-11-2001 18:51									#14
	Put an end to popups!

I've never tried offering any, lord forbid, but they will give them up, if they're outclassed and begging for peace.

	04-11-2001 18:52									#15
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Really? Guess I've just had bad luck with them...

	04-11-2001 19:22									#16
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quote: world map and Monarchy

Of COURSE they wanted those two badly! That's all they need to move to a war footing, and then come after you! Never ever EVER give up Monarchy if you've bee-lined for it! :-)

	04-11-2001 22:08									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld It depends how powerful you are compared to them, if you have a weaker military but more technology they will stomp all over you and abuse you, often demanding technology. If you have a strong military and weak technology, they won't be so quick to war - but they won't take you seriously and will often make outrageous demands. if you are their equal - they will treat you like one (more or less.. depending on the civs personalities), if you are superior to them, they might do a bit of sucking up.

Oswald I wisht thats how it was! If so then the other civs should be offering me random tributes every turn! I'm getting fed up with their irrational diplomacy so I'll probably just conquer them all It's only this game too, my other game I had a weak military but a relatively good culture, and everyone would trade equal with me.

This game I'm playing I've done really good, I tried to expand fast but the Americans kept taking all the spots I would survey out before my settler got there (dont you hate when they do that? ) So I just got Immortals researched and had iron, so I decided to show the Americans that their ICS was a big mistake. Sure enough, all I needed were 2-3 immortals to occupy 6 of their cities- since they concentrated on ICS so much they had bad weak units and few in number. So now I'm already by far the largest civ, and I've put cultural improvements on highest priority so every one of my cities has great culture. (every civ i see in diplomacy, my advisor says is "in awe of my culture") Now for military- I have a standing force of 89 troops consisting of musketmen, cannon and knights. While most civs havent even gotten knights yet.

Still, they feel it necessary to rip me off so I guess military conquest here I come! Oh and my culture isnt annexing new cities either for a strange reason... I am a republic too. It's funny how much this game can vary- but I like that! My last game they treated me as equals and offered 1:1 trades, even though I was weaker. Also, I must have acquired like 6 cities through culture in my alst game! This game I'm so much more prominent fo a civ yet only 1 city annexed from the zulu. Ant it cant be the difficulty, I've been playing Regent level since I bought the game (i didnt want to get spoiled playing an easier level) Oh well- back to the game!

	05-11-2001 01:55									#18
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quote: Of COURSE they wanted those two badly! That's all they need to move to a war footing, and then come after you! Never ever EVER give up Monarchy if you've bee-lined for it! :-)

Well my point was that the origonal deal they proposed was 1 tech (Iron Working or somethin') for my world map and Monarchy, and I counterproposed and added three more techs and like 50 gold, and each tech I added did NOT affect the chances of success.

I heard one guy asked for 9999 gold per turn or something like that, and he GOT IT.

	05-11-2001 02:00									#19
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I managed to rob 100 million gold per turn from the Americans. Load the attached saved file and try it yourself. Call up the Americans and request 100 million gold per turn without giving anything in return. They will gladly succumb.

Attachment: 100million.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	05-11-2001 02:11									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by cassembler Well my point was that the origonal deal they proposed was 1 tech (Iron Working or somethin') for my world map and Monarchy, and I counterproposed and added three more techs and like 50 gold, and each tech I added did NOT affect the chances of success. I heard one guy asked for 9999 gold per turn or something like that, and he GOT IT.

Yes someone claimed they got 200000 gold per turn, so it sounds like the "per turn" has a bug.

As far as your trade, 2 days ago I traded my World Map for 4 Techs the AI had. And at the time my World Map was almost the same as my Territory Map. The AI highly values the human player's "World Map". They should tweak that... I could see 2 techs... but 4?