05-11-2001 04:40									#1
	OPEN letter to FIRAXIS- thanks for any considarations they give it! Put an end to popups!

Dear Sid & Firaxis,

I've played through Civ3 at Regent level a few times and think the game is overall an unbelievably great effort! However, I would really like you to consider a few things for game balancing reasons and ease of use in the interface:

1) There should be a way to locate Natural Resources (and luxuries) on the playing map. By 1830AD when you discover oil if there is none within your own national borders, pouring over the entire map to find where it is in other developed (Rail Roaded/Irrigated/Mined) countries is almost impossible. While I can figure out that, for example, the British have it (they have Tanks) I'd like to be able to know WHERE it is without analyzing each tile myself. Perhaps it could be a legitimate diplomat function that you pay a few coins for, or perhaps just add some hot-keys or something.

2)"R" for building roads is great. [shift]-"R" for RR's is sort of silly, don't you think? Why not keep it as "R" as in Civ1? Just do a RR when there is already a road and a road when there is nothing. Gets to be a bit too much hitting Shift/R. (Minor complaint)

3)The REPLAY at the end is GREAT to have back! Thank you! Do you think you could also denote
these events in the replay: Government Changes of each nation, the FIRST discovery of a tech (and by
whom), the FIRST building of a new unit type- where and by whom. I would send you chocolates for this addition! (MAJOR! heh heh)

4)As there is a harbor and airport symbol in cities, a barracks symbol would be very helpful too on the main map.

5)After Industrialisation, it seems a little too easy to have 20 workers all over adding to your terrain- they are just so fast and cheap- perhaps they should cost 1 production point per turn or more gold/turn at this point so that a player actually thinks about how many he has out there and if it's a wise idea to have them out there rather than just hanging around on pollution patrol.

6)the TRADE ADVISOR should also tell me in her chart who might be willing to IMPORT my stuff- not just who can export to me. I know the diplomat advisor sort of does this, but a chart would be a faster way to get the info to me.

7)Should Colonies really be destroyed by other civs when they come within their cultural sphere? It makes colonies that much less useful compared to just founding a city. I've given up using them at all. I think colonies should be commercial interests strong enough to resist anything but a military take over or bribe by another civ- at least then they would be somewhat useful.

8)The AI should get more Culture savvy in the early game- if it builds a city near mine it should understand that a TEMPLE is HIGH priority, otherwise (as has happened a LOT with me) the AI loses it's town rather quickly to me... (MAJOR)

9) FIX THE EDITOR F6 science advisor problem! I am really getting PISSED with this as I can't play mod games. Am I alone on this!?

10 )Anyone confrm this?: Coastal fortresses and Fighters on air-superiority are BROKEN!?!? I have yet to shoot down an enemy bomber and it appears quite a few people are experiencing this... anyone EVER succeed in attacking a passing ship or an enemy bomber?

11)Air-superiority didn't work for me when S was pressed, but it works for the computer player.


12)Recycling advance should also allow us to get by without a large Iron source or maybe a resource of our choice?


13)Leader production needs to be evaluated. It has taken 4 games to get a leader with extensive(more than 10-20 per game) elite vs civ wins. A poll I put up seems to indicate that this is not an unusual number. Armies shouldn't be that rare.


14)End game- civ in second place is content to finish second in all 6 games that I finished. IOW there was never an attempt to disrupt spaceship building, Diplo, or world conquer. Around the year 1995(if the big guy is "winning" by a certain percentage there should be a chance that) they should make a push to disrupt the big guy. IMHO


15)Also, Diplo victory seems to be a step back from SMAC(one of the few things I liked about that game). It should be re-visited. UN could have a bigger role in the game also as a peace broker/reperations decider, etc.. Yup, diplo victory is WAY too abrupt for my taste!

16)Leaders/Armies should be revisited AND should be an OPTION as to whether you even want them in the game or not! The low odds seem needed, but there should just be a better way to balance them in the game! If there isn't a good way to balance it- it's not a good feature to INCLUDE- that would be bad game design, no? Something Sid is not supposed to do.

Thanks to Craterus22 over at civfanatics for some of the above suggestions.

Thanks for ANY consideration you give this!

	05-11-2001 05:30									#2
	Re: OPEN letter to FIRAXIS- thanks for any considarations they give it! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by dearmad 13)Leader production needs to be evaluated. It has taken 4 games to get a leader with extensive(more than 10-20 per game) elite vs civ wins. A poll I put up seems to indicate that this is not an unusual number. Armies shouldn't be that rare. 16)Leaders/Armies should be revisited AND should be an OPTION as to whether you even want them in the game or not! The low odds seem needed, but there should just be a better way to balance them in the game! If there isn't a good way to balance it- it's not a good feature to INCLUDE- that would be bad game design, no? Something Sid is not supposed to do.

Don't like to nitpick, but don't these two points contradict each other? You either want more armies or you don't want more armies, you can't want both

	05-11-2001 05:40									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

In terms of trying to find resources. If you look over your information in the resources advisor, you will be given information about what you can export and from whom.

	05-11-2001 06:06									#4
	Resources Revealed Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

As others have mentioned, once ANY civilization learns a technology that reveals a resource, ALL civilizations should be able to see that type of resource on the map. This is critical.

I would hate to be on multiplayer & my ally need oil which I have, but I cannot give/trade it to him because I haven't learned that tech yet! Insane! Any civilization should be able to trade a resource even if that civilization cannot use that resource yet.

	05-11-2001 06:24									#5
	Re: Resources Revealed Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew As others have mentioned, once ANY civilization learns a technology that reveals a resource, ALL civilizations should be able to see that type of resource on the map. This is critical. I would hate to be on multiplayer & my ally need oil which I have, but I cannot give/trade it to him because I haven't learned that tech yet! Insane! Any civilization should be able to trade a resource even if that civilization cannot use that resource yet.

The idea would be to trade the tech so you can trade with them. I think it is realistic how it is in the game.

	05-11-2001 06:39									#6
	Re: Re: Resources Revealed Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by SITS The idea would be to trade the tech so you can trade with them. I think it is realistic how it is in the game.

I agree!
And if you are ahead on tech, you can see the resource but the owner cannot if he/(she) doesn't have the tech yet. I have given refining away so they could trade me some oil!
I LOVE this game!

	05-11-2001 06:45									#7
	Re: Re: Resources Revealed Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by SITS The idea would be to trade the tech so you can trade with them. I think it is realistic how it is in the game.

That's a good strategy idea, but it is not realistic for me to NOT be able to trade a resource simply because I do not know how to use it for ships. Just because I don't know how to ride a horse doesn't mean I wouldn't know how to trade it.

	05-11-2001 07:44									#8
	Tired of ads?

I Agree with the above.. all civs should see it so it can be traded.

Proably a moot point, we seem split on this issue so Firaxis won't change it.

	05-11-2001 07:53									#9
	Re: Re: Resources Revealed Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by SITS The idea would be to trade the tech so you can trade with them. I think it is realistic how it is in the game.

Yes, I agree

this is not only realistic but adds more strateguic decisions to make



JHon Miller

	05-11-2001 09:33									#10
	Suffering from ads?

How would you be able to capture/herd horses or mine iron if you didn't know how to ride/smelt the recources?

	05-11-2001 11:11									#11
	Re: Re: Re: Resources Revealed Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew That's a good strategy idea, but it is not realistic for me to NOT be able to trade a resource simply because I do not know how to use it for ships. Just because I don't know how to ride a horse doesn't mean I wouldn't know how to trade it.

Civ advances are broader than that. Horse riding is more than just knowing how to ride horses, for example, but the domestication of horses, how to catch horses in the wild so they aren't hurt, animal husbandry, and the whole works that goes with horse riding.

	05-11-2001 11:12									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I just wish the rival civ's would be as agressive about trade as they are about expansion. I've built roads all the way to enemy capitals. I hooked the Aztecs up to saltpeter with my own workers, then, since they had no extra, I hooked them up to a second source as well. THEN I got them to trade salpeter to me. Not long after, they declared war on me, and I took that town from them anyway. Next time, I don't think I'll bother. Naturally, I can't build harbors or airports for them at all.

I wonder, would it be a tall order to add something like that to the diplomatic menu? Something like "build a road, build a harbor, so we can trade."

	05-11-2001 12:33									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

If a civ doesn't have refining, it wouldn't have either the technology to locate large oil sources or to drill and refine the oil to trade it with you, so it isn't realistic for them to see the oil just because you can.

It also removes a major part of the strategy, which is that if you are the first to learn refining, you can capture oil resources from other civs without them realising the significance of your gains, meaning you could get hold of the oil during peace resolutions simply because they do not understand the importance of the city they are letting you get away with.

	05-11-2001 15:24									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I agree with what others have said about needing the tech to be able to use it. Civ has abstract concepts - so if have the tech for Gunpowder then you know how to find it, use it and place a value on it.

If we took it to the extreme and one civ hadn't really developed and was still lumbering around on a small island but hadn't got anywhere near the tech for gunpowder then how would it be realistic for that Civ to be able to trade it? Or if in the real world a long lost Borneo tribe was found to be living next oil would we expect them to be join OPEC? Me thinks not....

	05-11-2001 17:19									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In general I agree that resource trading should follow the rule that both civs must have the required tech first, but RL saltpeter is actually the exception that proves the rule.

Potassium Nitrate, the one of the main components of saltpeter, and IIRC, the harder one to acquire in the right quantities is actually something that was found most of the time just laying around with nobody wanting to even go near it. The reason: until chemists learned to make it in a lab, it was commonly found in guano and manure piles. And its not that hard to convince someone that you want to haul away a giant pile of **** if they don't realize what you are going to do with it. They'll just take your money, and go about their business convinced you need to stay out of the sun more.

Most of the other resources, however, are hard enough to find/extract in quantity, that if the other guy doesn't know about it and how to use it, they really won't be able to help you acquire it very well.

And of course, even if you knew that the potassium nitrate in guano was part of gunpowder, you still need to know how to treat it with acid to create saltpeter, and the proper mixture of it, sulpher and charcoal needed to make gunpowder.

	05-11-2001 18:10									#16
	Re: OPEN letter to FIRAXIS- thanks for any considarations they give it! Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by dearmad 1) There should be a way to locate Natural Resources (and luxuries) on the playing map. By 1830AD when you discover oil if there is none within your own national borders, pouring over the entire map to find where it is in other developed (Rail Roaded/Irrigated/Mined) countries is almost impossible. While I can figure out that, for example, the British have it (they have Tanks) I'd like to be able to know WHERE it is without analyzing each tile myself. Perhaps it could be a legitimate diplomat function that you pay a few coins for, or perhaps just add some hot-keys or something. 3)The REPLAY at the end is GREAT to have back! Thank you! Do you think you could also denote these events in the replay: Government Changes of each nation, the FIRST discovery of a tech (and by whom), the FIRST building of a new unit type- where and by whom. I would send you chocolates for this addition! (MAJOR! heh heh)

I really like these two. Good ideas!

	05-11-2001 21:04									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Bleyn And its not that hard to convince someone that you want to haul away a giant pile of **** if they don't realize what you are going to do with it. They'll just take your money, and go about their business convinced you need to stay out of the sun more.

that seems a great sentence to add to your Trade Advisor babble!

quote: Most of the other resources, however, are hard enough to find/extract in quantity, that if the other guy doesn't know about it and how to use it, they really won't be able to help you acquire it very well.

A more complex but viable solution should be to trade the right to found a colony inside someone else territory and join it to existing road route.

This way you should simulate a bunch of your expert mining the terrain using know tech without leaking them to the other Civ.

If the other Civ change its mind it can still attack and destroy your colony, but paying the consequence, or null the pact and force your colony to disappear (giving back your worker?)