05-11-2001 10:47									#1
	NSC instead of OCC Got spare money?

Well, Civ 3 is very different, and OCC is very hard and practically unrealistic because you need territory to get resources. So I suggest that instead of OCC we can try No Settler Challenge (NSC). The difference is that you can accept those cities, which become yours because of the high culture, but you can not build settlers and found cities yourself.

What do you think?

	05-11-2001 11:23									#2
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I think It's certainly do able...It's a much less dramatic effect though than in CIV2 becuase settlers don't do any work. You'd have to Say No Settlers and No Workers, none captured either =)
Then you'd have to capture cities that had the right resources already developed

	05-11-2001 12:42									#3
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I think OCC would only be possible (for most normal players) if you were given a utopia start location. I'd say you would have to be by a river and have at least a couple resources to trade with.

	05-11-2001 12:45									#4
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Or we can just allow the use of Colonies in OCC game.

There is a thread about the issue in the Strategy forum.

	06-11-2001 11:49									#5
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I afraid that just using colonies will not help, because they soon will be captured by expanding borders of your rivals. I think you should be allowed to keep the cities that you won culturally, but the reason for this - to be able to get slightly more territory and thus recourses.

	06-11-2001 11:53									#6
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With the razing of cities, it would theoretically be possible to have a OCC military conquest victory. I'd like to see someone try it anyways.

	06-11-2001 12:16									#7
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From everything I've heard, an OCC will be EASIER in Civ3... what with the hideous corruption that would hit your outlying cities anyway. Plus you can stack up 20,000 culture in your one city and win the game automatically.

And colonies aren't cities, ergo if you can keep 'em, they're legal.

	06-11-2001 13:16									#8
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i think i've developed an OCC strategy to win via cultural victory, and i think it will work. i play on giving it a shot sometime soon here when i have time. i don't want to tell all the specifics of my strategy yet, not until i have a chance to try it out. but i DEFINATELY think it's possible. . .

	06-11-2001 14:22									#9
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OCC should be do-able from a technical viewpoint.
Dan mentioned that a cultural victory would not require any resources, which will help with an OCC game, since its expected we wouldnt have much by way of resources.

Potential problems, and tentative solutions:
1) Happiness (or lack thereof) of the population.
All 'happiness' buildings would already be built asap, since they add culture. Could be solved by increase of luxuries, entertainers.

2) Lack of decent defenders.
Could trade for required resources, then pump out as many units as possible while the resources last. Or build as many units as necessary beforehand, and when you have access to resources, upgrade all the units you can afford to.

3) Possible 'problems' with the enemy wanting to crush your puny city.
Diplomacy and trade (hopefully) will keep them off your back. High culture should also help other nations be more peaceful towards you.

Thats all i can think of so far. Cant wait until Civ 3 is available in Australia, so i can test my theories out...

	06-11-2001 15:01									#10
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Any thoughts on which civs to use? I'm amused by the thought that the expansionist civs are potentially the most useful! After that, maybe religous, or scientific? Hmmm. Industrious would probably add as many shields as religous when you think about it, but perhaps not at such a critical time. Commercial and military attributes are pretty clearly cack.
Anyone who's won a culture victory, does the AI try to kill your city when it gets close to 20k culture? If so then OCC/NSC could be really hard.

Anyone lay odds on how long it takes before we see a Deity OCC victory?

	06-11-2001 16:52									#11
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I think it will be quite sometime before we see OCC on Deity. I'm not sure at the numbers yet but I don't know if you can achieve cultural victory without building wonders and on Deity, it takes every piece of effort you're got to to complete a wonder like pyramids of great library

	06-11-2001 19:46									#12
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OCC is do-able in the ancient era, but once the AI switches from expansion to infrastructure, it tends to close the culture gap very quickly. Suddenly, your one city full of culture and infrastructure isn't all that impressive next to an empire full of culture and infrastructure.

In any case, the game is challenging enough using normal strategies that you don't feel a need to handicap yourself with artificial rules. For those who prefer building quality empires over large empires, you will be occupied for many many games countering the advantages the AI gets from expanding quickly in the early game.

	06-11-2001 21:11									#13
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What about OCC without a culture or diplomatic victory?

	06-11-2001 21:13									#14
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How about something even harder: NCC (no city challenge). Try and win the space race with only a colony.

	06-11-2001 22:49									#15
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker How about something even harder: NCC (no city challenge). Try and win the space race with only a colony.

There were some proposals in SMAC to have a challenge where you mut disband both your colony pods and win the game using only your starting 1-1-1 scout. Never done, but it was regarded as possible, with some luck, and maybe using the gaians.

Ah, how times change...