06-11-2001 10:35									#1
	How many of you would admit Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That you're frustrated with the game because you haven't bothered to read the manual and don't understand it yet.

	06-11-2001 10:49									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I read the manual. Save the last few pages of charts, it's worthless. Honestly. 200 pages of: 'This is how you move the map' 'Monarchy is a different kind of government from Despotism', etc.

	06-11-2001 10:55									#3
	He's right Enter the AD-FREE zone

Before anyone jumps on him, Yin is not just being pessimistic here; the manual is really not much help. It might be useful for those playing Civ for the very first time but for anyone else it's not much good. I'd try the tutorial to get used to the new game features. You don't need to read about them.

	06-11-2001 10:59									#4
	Suffering from ads?

I've read the manual and i'm still upset! The manual isn't much help but it does explain a lot of the new features....

	06-11-2001 11:25									#5
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Screw manuals, alls I need is nice spreadsheet with stats, and a reference card for the hotkeys. Of course I don't have either

	06-11-2001 11:28									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

For as big as the manual is, there seems to be a lot of vital information that wasn't mentioned.

It is still a good starting place for first time CIVers, though.

	06-11-2001 11:40									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Moral Hazard Screw manuals, alls I need is nice spreadsheet with stats, and a reference card for the hotkeys. Of course I don't have either

exactly...

	06-11-2001 11:54									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Anatolia: Thanks for the backup! LOL

	06-11-2001 12:18									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Anything for a fellow Caucasian-Korean! . . . . ?

	06-11-2001 12:23									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

These manuals are always purposely non-informative because they want you to buy the strategy guide. Always on a quest for more dollars.

Just like they don't put in Multi-play so you'll shell out another $40 in 6 months for Civ III "GOLD".

	06-11-2001 12:26									#11
	Remove this text

speaking of which....

does anyone care to make a .doc of all the hotkeys (including those not found in the manual) and what tehy do?

	06-11-2001 12:38									#12
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quote: Originally posted by tleilaxu speaking of which.... does anyone care to make a .doc of all the hotkeys (including those not found in the manual) and what tehy do?

I would if I knew the undocumented ones...are there lots? The list in the back of the manual seems pretty good. (Even if the one in the civilopedia is very incomplete.)

	06-11-2001 12:55									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Moral Hazard Screw manuals, alls I need is nice spreadsheet with stats, and a reference card for the hotkeys. Of course I don't have either

Yes, for most of us here, we knew of most of the changes, and their impacts, long before Civ 3 was released.

As to the info we all want, someone on Apolyton will compile it soon... and if they dont, i will when i eventually get the game.
It gets released on the 19th in Australia, only 2 weeks waiting left

	06-11-2001 13:17									#14
	Re: How many of you would admit Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse That you're frustrated with the game because you haven't bothered to read the manual and don't understand it yet.

I WISH all of the scenario/editting problems were a result of not reading the manual but unfortunately they aint.
Just like the "lack of MP" problems aren't anything to do with the manual either.

	06-11-2001 13:34									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just for the record, the strategy guide isn't much use either. It's just a rehash of the manual, and what IS useful should have been in the manual in the first place. Can't say I'm surprised, but it was in the store, and I got it for the h**l of it.

I'd have loved a thorough reference card. There doesn't seem to be ANY one place where EVERY hotkey, command, and stat is documented. The Civilopedia has always been a great concept. But as others have pointed out, it's not a complete reference, and there's just no substitute for a hardcopy you can hold in your hand.

	06-11-2001 13:34									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by yin26 I read the manual. Save the last few pages of charts, it's worthless. Honestly. 200 pages of: 'This is how you move the map' 'Monarchy is a different kind of government from Despotism', etc.

Manual is worthless, Civilopedia is awesome! Game is great, Chieftain opponents are kicking my behind and it really feels great to play

Poster in the LE is also pathetic and so is the cardboard thingie for CDs. Cheapos...

	06-11-2001 13:37									#17
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UGH! the manual AND the strategy guide are incomplete and basically useless except to inform of changes from Civ2. Just play the game and learn that way!

	06-11-2001 13:57									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I found a few things in the game, the interface that is, illogical.

SHIFT key to acess queus is frusting.

also the fact that you can't move more than one unit at a time (unless it's an army).

Minor gripes, but frustraing.

Also, a quick game report - everything was going fine until the Germans declared war on me for not giving them my map. I thought - well, they're half a continent away, what can they do?

Kinda forgot about it until 15 german units showed up and trashed my empire. This was on chieftain, btw!! round abouts 650 AD.

	06-11-2001 14:04									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Roger to the general opinion on the manual. Lots of text, but so little info. Except for the hard reference charts, the common theme is 'vagueness'.

Also agree on the interface quirks. Shift for the qeue... tsk.

	06-11-2001 14:20									#20
	Anyone have an index? Suffering from ads?

The manual is rather difficult to glean information from, but I think the most frustrating part is the lack-o-valuable index. Try finding anything about "Mobilization" in the index, what it does, and when you will automatically stop being mobilized. Look up "Advances, Modern" and you get the list of *optional* Modern Advances.

True, this is the manual for a brand new game, and one really can't fault those who wrote it if information was unavailable or changed between when the game when gold and their copy did. ( Afterall, has anyone seen the icons listed on page 166? They've been replaced with the cryptic D E P H S - see their placement on the screenshot from pg 167)

Worse, many of these items aren't even listed in the otherwise helpful Civilopedia. Considering that the manual itself says "Many people don't read the manual until something goes wrong" you would think there'd be a lot more help from both these facets of the game, instead of the user having to left click, right click, double click, and Ctrl- and pray, in the hope that somewhere they'll figure out how to contact a Civ that isn't listed on the F4 / Foreign Minister's Screen.

However, God Bless 'Em for putting the game out that I can b**** about it

Yaga

	06-11-2001 16:25									#21
	Tired of ads?

As a matter of fact, I have the manual - I just don't have the game yet

	06-11-2001 17:17									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hey! I really have to agree with AH, can't help here. I read the manual before I played my first turn, and this has gone a long way in making me understand how the new concepts work.
Horsie, won't you bite me?

	06-11-2001 17:30									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Hey! I really have to agree with AH

*Horse feints*

	06-11-2001 17:55									#24
	Re: How many of you would admit Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse That you're frustrated with the game because you haven't bothered to read the manual and don't understand it yet.

Whatever initial frustration I had with the game was due to both not reading the manual and not playing the tutorial. However, I did not come around here whining about it.

Also, I'll agree that the manual isn't that great. It really white-washes some of the game concepts.

	06-11-2001 19:41									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse As a matter of fact, I have the manual - I just don't have the game yet

I know the feeling...

	06-11-2001 19:47									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse As a matter of fact, I have the manual - I just don't have the game yet

I know the feeling...

	06-11-2001 20:14									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis well, everything is in the manual AFAIK, but for people who just like to jump in, it might not be so easy...

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis oh, I also wanted to mention that the interface is designed so that you do not have to ever go to the city screen if you don't want to (in fact, that is how I play...) I am curious if anyone has been playing this way, or have the short-cuts been hidden too well?

Apparently someone submitted to Firaxis the brilliant idea that everything should be done through hot keys, thus eliminating the popups and pulldowns.

	06-11-2001 21:43									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Solver Hey! I really have to agree with AH, can't help here. I read the manual before I played my first turn, and this has gone a long way in making me understand how the new concepts work. Horsie, won't you bite me?

You got a pirated copy? They were out in E. Europe on October 31
Manual is shite. Try finding what are prerequisites for minor wonders or something. LImited edition my a$$...