06-11-2001 20:55									#1
	For those having problems with the science advisor with custom BIC files Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We have a hypothesis on what is causing this, and so far it seems logical in theory, so here goes:

If you are having the "can't do anything on the Science advisor" problem when you try to load a custom BIC file in using the "Load Scenario" option, please start a game (preferably loading a game where you've already contacted a few other civs) and go to the foreign advisor.

Click around, select different civs in the advisor and play with the display options (turn on and off the display of agreements, etc.)

-- Are you seeing the lines drawn between the other civs?
-- Does the screen seem really slow?

Now go back to the main map screen and use the "Go To" command (click the icon and/or use the 'G' key to select a destination).

-- Does the game lag significantly while you're dragging the cursor?


We think the problem may be a video driver issue. Several parts of the game use the OpenGL API to handle antialiasing, and older video drivers might need to be updated to properly handle this.

In the specific case of the science advisor, when the game thinks it's dealing with a mod, it uses the OpenGL API to dynamically draw the lines which connect technologies in the tech tree.

It uses predrawn arrows for the default game tech tree, which may be why mods are not exhibiting this problem when they are saved as "civ3mod.bic". The game thinks it's loading the default rules, and doesn't use the dynamic line drawing.

Anyway, this is one theory, and seems the most plausible at the current moment, so let me know if you are seeing this kind of slowdown in either of the other two places, since they both use OpenGL as well. Please also let me know what your machine specs are; if you're playing the game on a slower PC or a PC with less RAM it's entirely possible you'd have some slowdown in these areas even with totally up-to-date drivers.

Thanks for your patience.


Dan

	06-11-2001 21:12									#2
	www.glsetup.com Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

At this point I'm also going to recommend that anyone running Win95/98/Me who is having any of the problems mentioned above, that they checkout GLSetup:

http://www.glsetup.com/


Unless you're on a Cable Modem, DSL, or T1, I don't recommend the whopping 88Mb "monolithic" download. Try the GLSetup for the Web option first.

Apparently it doesn't yet support Win2000 or XP, so I'll try to find an easy solution for 2000/XP users.

http://webdeploy.glsetup.com/webdeploy.121/glsetup.exe


Download GLSetup and run it, and it should get and install the latest and best OpenGL drivers for your system. Let me know if this resolves the problem.

Thanks


Dan

Last edited by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS on 06-11-2001 at 21:35

	06-11-2001 21:18									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

edit: double post

Last edited by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS on 06-11-2001 at 21:30

	07-11-2001 00:06									#4
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I suffer from the aforementioned problems. Any new .bic I create will have problems with science advisor regardless of what changes I make. The lines wont be drawn, and I can't click on any of the techs to change what I'm researching. Unfortunately I'm not home right now to test your theory but I can tell you I have a Hercules 3d Prophet DDR (geForce) with the latest drivers, 390 Mb ram, 450 Pentium 2, Windows 2000. Feel free to email me @ t.lozina@verizon.net if you want any info or files. I'd like to help in any way I can to find out why this problem occurs ...

	07-11-2001 00:56									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by TheDarkside I suffer from the aforementioned problems. Any new .bic I create will have problems with science advisor regardless of what changes I make. The lines wont be drawn, and I can't click on any of the techs to change what I'm researching. Unfortunately I'm not home right now to test your theory but I can tell you I have a Hercules 3d Prophet DDR (geForce) with the latest drivers, 390 Mb ram, 450 Pentium 2, Windows 2000. Feel free to email me @ t.lozina@verizon.net if you want any info or files. I'd like to help in any way I can to find out why this problem occurs ...

If you're using the *latest* drivers (Detonator 21.81) you may have some problems there. 14.10 and below should work fine, but 21.81 is definitely causing some folks problems on 2000 and XP systems.

I can't seem to locate any OpenGL-specific software on the Hercules site, I'll do some digging and see what I come up with. I know the Detonator drivers are supposed to have OpenGL drivers in them as well, though, so maybe just going back to 14.10 would work...


Dan

	07-11-2001 01:25									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS If you're using the *latest* drivers (Detonator 21.81) you may have some problems there. 14.10 and below should work fine, but 21.81 is definitely causing some folks problems on 2000 and XP systems. I can't seem to locate any OpenGL-specific software on the Hercules site, I'll do some digging and see what I come up with. I know the Detonator drivers are supposed to have OpenGL drivers in them as well, though, so maybe just going back to 14.10 would work... Dan

I can confirm that this doesn't work, at least for XP. I rolled back my drivers to 12-something because of the scrolling speed, and I still get the messed-up science advisor when loading up a scenario.

	07-11-2001 02:15									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I had both the "no diplomacy lines" and the "screwed-up science" problems. (I don't know whether the Go-to command was slow or not.) I installed a new video driver for my ATI Rage Pro card (had to use the "official alternate" driver from ATI) and the diplomacy lines are fixed. I will check the science advisor with a mod BIC tonight.

	07-11-2001 02:34									#8
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS If you're using the *latest* drivers (Detonator 21.81) you may have some problems there. 14.10 and below should work fine, but 21.81 is definitely causing some folks problems on 2000 and XP systems. I can't seem to locate any OpenGL-specific software on the Hercules site, I'll do some digging and see what I come up with. I know the Detonator drivers are supposed to have OpenGL drivers in them as well, though, so maybe just going back to 14.10 would work... Dan

How do I tell what detonator version I'm using? Here's all the info I can dig up off my system properties that might be relevent...

Driver version: 1.4.1.0
Chip type: GeForce DDR
BIOS: 2.10.0300
Open GL installable client driver: 5.13.01.1410 (nvoglnt.dll)
Display Driver: 5.13.01.1410 (nv4_disp.dll)
DirectX version: 8.0 (4.08.00.0400)

if you need any other info pls let me know

	07-11-2001 02:41									#9
	Support Apolyton

EDIT: double post... these aployton servers are getting ravaged....

	07-11-2001 05:35									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

This didn't help me at all.

Radeon AIW driver version 4.13.7189
Athlon 600 512MB RAM

Still getting the same problems with the science advisor etc.

	07-11-2001 07:40									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

ATI Rage Pro 16MB. Version 4.12.6294

Dell Computer, Intel Pentium III, 650Mhz, 128MB RAM

Tried the glsetup, but it didn't appear to have anything available to upgrade when I ran the 88MB file.

The mod I was using is named civ3mod.bic and it is displaying the problem with the science advisor. I will try reinstalling the game when I have a chance and saving a backup of civ3mod.bic when I have a chance to double check this.

	07-11-2001 08:12									#12
	Remove this text

nVidia: Detonator V 21.83 was released about a week before XP came out.

http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=drivers

Radeon:For those with XP and ATI based cards, the OpenGL support was missing on the the XP disc. ATI released complete drivers, again about a week before XP launch.

http://support.ati.com/issuetype/dr...older=66&doc=52

	07-11-2001 08:22									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm running ME on this machine...

	07-11-2001 22:44									#14
	Tired of ads?

I have a W98 P2, ATI Rage Pro Turbo driver v.4.11.2560, SoundBlaster PCI64. Note ATI claims "Recommended Driver. This is a fully released and supported display driver, which supports Windows 98, Windows 98 SE, and Windows 95b (OSR2). DirectX 6 and OpenGL support are included." I installed DirectX 8.0a from the Civ III disk.

I was experiencing the following problems:

1) No lines drawn in Diplomacy advisor (ever)

2) No lines drawn in Science advisor if a modified .bic was used (with no changes to the tech tree)

3) Unable to click on advances to change research direction if using a modified .bic

I was not having troubles with slow scrolling or with crashes related to the science advisor in a modified .bic.


I upgraded to Rage Pro driver v.4.12.2632, described as "Alternate Driver: Originally posted as a Special Purpose Driver Feb. 1, 2000; Moved to Technical Support Download pages March 26, 2001. This display driver is NOT recommended if you wish to use the ATI DVD Player or capture video using the ATI Video Player (TV Tuner/Capture) software." I also reinstalled DirectX from the Civ disk.

This fixed problems (1) and (2), but not problem (3).

Hope this helps, Dan.

	10-11-2001 07:14									#15
	Re: For those having problems with the science advisor with custom BIC files Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS We have a hypothesis on what is causing this, and so far it seems logical in theory, so here goes: If you are having the "can't do anything on the Science advisor" problem when you try to load a custom BIC file in using the "Load Scenario" option, please start a game (preferably loading a game where you've already contacted a few other civs) and go to the foreign advisor. Click around, select different civs in the advisor and play with the display options (turn on and off the display of agreements, etc.) -- Are you seeing the lines drawn between the other civs? -- Does the screen seem really slow? Now go back to the main map screen and use the "Go To" command (click the icon and/or use the 'G' key to select a destination). -- Does the game lag significantly while you're dragging the cursor? Dan

Nope, neither of those problems; just the science advisor thing, where I can't pick *any* advances. The issue isn't just the arrows being drawn; it's not being allowed to pick any advances, even the very first ones.

Game is otherwise quite responsive and usable.

	10-11-2001 07:37									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sinapus ATI Rage Pro 16MB. Version 4.12.6294 Dell Computer, Intel Pentium III, 650Mhz, 128MB RAM Tried the glsetup, but it didn't appear to have anything available to upgrade when I ran the 88MB file. The mod I was using is named civ3mod.bic and it is displaying the problem with the science advisor. I will try reinstalling the game when I have a chance and saving a backup of civ3mod.bic when I have a chance to double check this.

Okay, update. I completely uninstalled Civ3, reinstalled the program and saved a copy of civ3mod.bic.

Then I started a game using civ3mod.bic as a scenario, without modifying it.

Still got the problem with the Science Advisor.

Oddly enough, when I went into the editor and opened up civ3mod.bic, I couldn't get it to use default rules for some reason. I don't know if that is a bug or a feature. Oh well.

	10-11-2001 09:39									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Oddly enough, when I went into the editor and opened up civ3mod.bic, I couldn't get it to use default rules for some reason. I don't know if that is a bug or a feature. Oh well.

The reason for that is the "default rules" ARE civ3mod.bic. So choosing "use default rules" would basically be telling it to use the rules it already has. Wouldn't make much sense

	10-11-2001 11:55									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Only one of those problems im having is the science advisor with scenarios.

Windows ME
Athlon 900
Voodoo 5/5500 PCI (last drivers 3dfx did before going out)

I could give you more exact system specs, but judging from the variety already posted, it doesnt seem to be related to that too much.

I do *see* lines in the science advisor though, they just dont actually connect to any of the techs :P And nothing is selectable.

	11-11-2001 03:18									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Plutarck The reason for that is the "default rules" ARE civ3mod.bic. So choosing "use default rules" would basically be telling it to use the rules it already has. Wouldn't make much sense

Okay. Now that makes senses.

So I should just keep a copy of civ3mod.bic for safekeeping and instead of loading the scenarios, mod the active file and simply start games as normal?

	12-11-2001 02:24									#20
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I'm also having problems with the Science Advisor and custom scenario files. Lines DO draw in the Science Advisor screen, but I don't think they're drawing correctly. They all connect to the upper-left corner of the relevant advance. And I cannot select any advance, which means I have to Ctrl-Alt-Del Civ 3 since Chuck won't let me leave the Science Advisor screen without selecting an advance to start researching. I haven't been able to try out the Diplomacy screen since I can't get far enough into an edited game to make contact with anyone...

Voodoo 3 3000
Windows 2000
P3, 733, 128 MB Ram

-Jamie

	12-11-2001 15:41									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Sinapus: Yup, that's exactly what you do until they fix it so you can load a .bic as a Scenario