07-11-2001 08:11									#31
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I could see how having the same user just click a lot is worth less than having different users click a little. Is that what you mean?

In that case, they oughta welcome some new blood on site.

When they talk about cpm are they talking after or before server costs. (i.e. from the Mark/Dan perspective or the GS perspecrtive.)

What would you estimate that GS gets paid by UGO per cpm?

	07-11-2001 08:20									#32
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

There are lots of threads about UGO if you do a search.

This one is interesting - it would hard to estimate what this site gets because presumably their cut is filtered through Gamestats.

http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/s...p;highlight=UGO

	07-11-2001 08:29									#33
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Darn it!! Is it my communication or is it that webmasters can't think about the other guy?

I'M ASKING WHAT GS GETS PER CPM FROM UGO. NOT WHAT MARK OR DAN GET.

	07-11-2001 08:40									#34
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Nice link AH. Looks like the rate for UGO is between .1-1 dollars per CPM form that thread.

The question I have is can any content site survive. (From a GS perspective.)

Let's say Mark and Dan are happy with nothing in payment, the posters, and Mark and Dan do all the content work. And all you have to do is provide a server. Can GS make money on that click stream?

WILL AD REVENUE PAY FOR COSTS OF SERVER AND COMMS?

If it pays for itself at all, you'd think it wpould be m ore economical the bigger the site gets. Since cost economies of scale should exist and since a bigger site should have a little more horsepower to negotiate on advertising.

	07-11-2001 08:48									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I can't answer the specifics of your question obviously, Mark or Dan will have to do that But from what I've observed, payments to sites seemed to have stabilised but on a much much lower base over recent months. If you went to that site say 6 months ago you'd see nothing but complaints about non payment from advertisers. Now they mainly complain about the low, low rates.

Bottom line seems to be the big sites survived - but mainly off affiliate programs etc., not CPM.

Its interesting to look at the sites of some of the posters there. I think it tends to confimr this site is not profit oriented - otherwise you'd se ads and links everywhere.

	07-11-2001 09:01									#36
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

AH...the site you sent me to is quite interesting.

I agree that Dan and Mark don't seem to run a for profit site. (But I would assume GS is for-profit.)

	07-11-2001 12:08									#37
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

GP,

You're right on two points:

1., yes, we should prod GS to think harder. My personal position is that buying a new server isn't quite it at the moment, especially if an upgrade would work better.

2. Yes, I am thinking from the GS standpoint, partially because I'm hosted by them, too. My site (not currently up, as I'm having troubles getting the DNS changed, ugh) and my network are now hosted by GS. This, of course, means that I don't want to see any financial issues passed along to us by a move as large as this, but nor do I want my sites to have to deal with slow CPU issues because of that thing y'all are calling "Civ3". What the hell is that, anyway?

	07-11-2001 12:09									#38
	Suffering from ads?

AH, have you considered running PROT for profit?

	07-11-2001 16:42									#39
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

No

	07-11-2001 16:58									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse this site is not profit oriented

you realised this now?!?

	08-11-2001 04:27									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I knew that

Although you and Dan did raise doubts by never playing civ with us

If I had a site I'd probably do game reviews - but I'd be happy if I just got free copies of games out of it

	08-11-2001 05:57									#42
	Remove this text

If you can fill a server to capacity, you must be able to make money off off that, or there's no reason to keep the doors open at all.

	08-11-2001 06:31									#43
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by GP or there's no reason to keep the doors open at all.

ok, everyone, i would like to make announcement:
Apolyton closes down tomorrow

	08-11-2001 09:14									#44
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

NOOO!!!!

Be a good little Eurocom and keep our bread and circuses around.

(Actually, Mark, I'm talking about from the GS point of view. They should make business decisions. The thing is to look at each situation individually. Just because other parts of the business have problems is no reason to turn away from a potential profit somewhere else. If you understand their incentives and can make them a business case for how something is in their interest, than you can get them to do things for you. (maybe). I know you don't care about money. And this is a labor of love for you. The thing is to put yourself in the GS shoes.)

	08-11-2001 09:41									#45
	Get a bigger avatar today!

*meanwhile the server, a 486 in a corner of Dan's parent's garage, whirrs away*

	08-11-2001 10:44									#46
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by GP If you can fill a server to capacity, you must be able to make money off off that, or there's no reason to keep the doors open at all.

GP, this is the internet - since when do popular websites need to make money to keep operating (case in point: Amazon.com)

	08-11-2001 11:10									#47
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Those days are over. GS (not Dan and Mark, GAMESTATS!!!) needs to have a business case that includes revenue matching costs and profits giving reasonable return on capital.