07-11-2001 08:28									#1
	City Governors & Intelligent Agents Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I read somewhere that the city governors in Civ 3 are intelligent agents that observe what players do and try to predict what he/she will want.

I'm currently in a massive military campaign against the Aztecs. As I'm phasing out my older units (swordsman/longbowmen) with Riflemen because I find these units to be all around better at both offense and defense, I find that ALL of my cities who are producing riflemen will immediately que up a longbowmen after completing the Riflemen production. This happens to ALL my cities, except to two coastal production centers where I'm being asked to produce frigates.

I've had to go back to change production or que up riflemen to ensure i don't suddenly get 10 longbowmen that i don't want.

My question is, what is happening with the intelligent agent that I don't know about.

I'm not asking for improvements to it, but I want to understand it so that I can adapt to the intelligent agent and hopefully, it can better understand my needs.

	07-11-2001 08:47									#2
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I noticed this as well. I was building infantry and my cities would revert back to War Chariot after every build. For some reason the governor tries to build your Civ specific unit all the time.

	07-11-2001 09:02									#3
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I studied Intelligent Agents in college. Very interesting concepts. Trading agents in particular can be used to conduct aucitons and deals for seperate parties, each agent seeking to optimize certain values. Interesting field of AI research.

Anyhow I do play with governers off as much as possible. I like to know that I have kicked the computers tail, and not that the computer has kicked the computer's tail.

	07-11-2001 11:57									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

bump.

Thinking the AI might mistake riflemen for defensive unit (it is afterall a successor unit to pikeman -one of the best early defensive units) I gave it the order to contruct defensive land units, but i still kept getting longbowmen instead of the unit I wanted.

I remember playing an earlier game where I had the knight, and the system seemed to recognize that was the best unit all around and built that automatically without me forcing the cities to do so. I'm not sure why in this game, the AI is so stubborn it refuses to learn from my action. Even on cities where I'm building altillery, it is still churning out longbowmen. I'm suspecting that because I'm fighting the Aztecs who only really have spearmen, longbowmen , jungle warrior and pikeman that the AI is trying to pump out weaker units? or is it going by a attack/defense ratio and somehow decided longbowmen had to be the best offensive unit given it has a 4 to 1 ratio, but of course, it has only 1 defense point, which makes it woefully inadequate....

any insight into this?

	07-11-2001 12:05									#5
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I got sick of my costal cities building iron clads and told the governors of ALL CITIES to stop producing naval units. A few turns later, they were building iron clads again. I double checked to see if I had entered something wrong...nope. They just wouldn't listen.

-JD

	07-11-2001 12:20									#6
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i hope this isn't another bug...

	07-11-2001 13:54									#7
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bump again... im still hoping i would get an answer to this...

	07-11-2001 14:24									#8
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quote: Originally posted by dexters i hope this isn't another bug...

It looks like one. I am constantly changing production as the cities seem to have a mind of their own. A small mind, but a mind nontheless. I don't understand that as I produce Riflemen, Cannons and Cavalry, the AI suddenly decides that Longbowmen are the way to go.

This is not linked to UUs. I am playing as Americans in the pre-flight era, so no F-15s yet.

I read somewhere that the beloved pop-ups will be introduced in the patch. I am eagerly awaiting that.

Generally though, the AI seems to be quite competent.

	07-11-2001 14:30									#9
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I never had too much of a problem with pop-ups...sometimes the game moves too fast and you miss that one of your cities is in civil disorder. By the time you find out again, they've destroyed something. Frustrating.

-JD

	07-11-2001 14:34									#10
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well, I beleive this is a serious bug. I am in the late industrial age and after any successful production my cities start to build a SWORDMAN?!

I guess there is a bug in the AI code that tries to learn & evaluate your previous build order; I donot follow a general patterns so the poor thing just gets confused I guess.

maybe we should start a new thread on this issue for the fraxians..

	07-11-2001 17:46									#11
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I don't believe this is a "bug". It is a lot more serious than that. I noticed the same behavior with the governors in SMAC. I never play with governors activated and never will until there is some reasonable code programmed for them. I guess you could say I am really waiting for Civ IV.

	07-11-2001 20:22									#12
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On Regent level and below, I use a standard build order for most cities. The only deviation is offensive units during war. The AI finally starts to recognize the pattern ~1900. It does learn, but very slowly.

	08-11-2001 04:42									#13
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I've played 2 games thus far (into my 2nd game) and I have to say that outside military production, the intelligent agent seems rather reasonable in its build orders and I'm sometimes surprised in its ability to read my mind.

I'd look over to a city finishing a production and think "hmmm... i think its a good time for a cathedral" and when the city governor comes up, what does he suggest? a cathedral. So I'm sure something is working in the domestic front.

In the military front, I've had mixed experieinces. In an earlier game, the AI recognized my preference for knights and it would automatically build that unit without being forced to. but reading all the testimonies in this thread has led me to believe that the city governer bug, or whatever it is, appears to be stuck somewhere. Perhaps it only works with certain units like knights, but not with others. Again, I have no clue how the intelligent agent works, but it may have to do with how it decides which unit to produce. The longbowman appears to be a favorite of the AI, and it may have something to do with its 4 to 1 offense/defense rating.

P.S. I'm still hoping to hear from someone in Firaxis or someone who can shed some light into this problem. I like the idea of having intelligent agents in the games. In fact, I'm thrilled. But when they don't work, I get worried.

	08-11-2001 05:25									#14
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I wonder if the gov is taking production cost into account? I havent even checked it, but Im going to.

I just wish that when I told them to build tanks they built tanks till I said stop. And why oh why don't these units become obsolete? I cannot possibly think of why I would ever build a warrior after I have more modern units, but there he sits taking up space in the smaller project selection window in the year 1900.

A pop-up box for the completion of military units scares me... stay away from that...

I just want the option to turn the gov completely off.

LB

	08-11-2001 08:26									#15
	Put an end to popups!

bump. Sorry mods. I just want to see someone who can explain why the game's Governors are behaving strangely.

read above posts for the full scoop.

	08-11-2001 08:33									#16
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I build 20 factories in a row, and follow every single one with a coal power plant. When the 21st factory is built, does the governor suggest a power plant? No.

	11-11-2001 02:30									#17
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I'm going bananas! I've been at war for 50 years now, with three different civs. I am building Tanks, Bombers, Carriers and Battleships. Every time a coastal city is done, it starts building a Privateer. What am I going to do with a Privateer when the world's oceans are ruled by Battleships? I have never built a Privateer, not in the current game anyway, and it's nearing the end of the 20th century. When will my Governors learn that I'm not interested in Privateers?

	11-11-2001 02:41									#18
	Remove this text

Actually, I have an idea. It's quite simple. How about being able to obsolete, or at least temporarily disable, older units from production? I wonder why Swordsmen and Longbowmen are still options when I have Infantrymen, Artillery and Tanks rolling off the production lines.