08-11-2001 06:14									#1
	Best government - Democracy? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I had republic and I was at - 225 gold per turn and almost all cities were at civil DISorder even though I had my luxury at 40%!

Then I got democracy, and all my cities were happy or content and my gold income after some tweaking boosted to + 150 gold per turn!

I mean holy crap!

	08-11-2001 06:27									#2
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As it should be. Democracy in Civ2 was unusuable for me. I'm still using Communism in my current game, I need to get up the courage to switch.

	08-11-2001 06:59									#3
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Under democracy, I once declared war on someone.

7 turns later, all of my happy citizens disappeared, replaced by an almost equal number of unhappy citizens.

I switched to communism after that. If not, every single one of my cities would go up in flames.

	08-11-2001 07:09									#4
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Sounds like you had a corruption problem.

	08-11-2001 09:13									#5
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Yeifi:
I would love to know more about the specifics of your situation. What was the level, world size, civilization, # of cities, etc...?

The reason I ask is that I switched from Republic to Democracy and had essentially no change in production or reduction in corruption. Maybe there was some other factor, but I actually started another thread trying to see if anyone had a positive experience with Democracy compared to Republic. It sounds like you did and I'm wondering what the difference was?

I had all the possible happiness wonders and city improvements in almost all my cities, Regent, standard world, about 20 cities, most above 20pop. Early in the Industrial age. I had to wage a large war on another continent just to secure coal so I could build railroads, and I did it under Republic without anyone ever getting upset at me. I was very happy with the lack of war weariness that my citizens were showing, and after it was finally over I decided to try Democracy. I only went from 1248 to 1279 or so in net trade after switching. I had a FP on the opposite end of the continent that I ruled alone, so my corruption wasn't too bad to begin with, but the foreign outposts on the other continent were equally crippled under Republic or Democracy.

My experience is that Democracy is not useful, but maybe there was something about that situation that hid some powerful benefits... hmm...

	08-11-2001 09:54									#6
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I too have had differing experiences than the original poster. When I switched from republic to democracy, my net income inched up ever so slightly, like from 123 to 137, entirely from a corruption decrease from 234 to like 205. Nice, but certainly not making a major difference. I saw no difference in happiness or production, thuogh workers to go faster. Overall, barely any different from republic, and from what I hear a real pain when you decide to go to war.

	08-11-2001 12:09									#7
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The best time to have democracy when you decide to not declare war anymore. War waryness is supreme in democracy - if you declare that. If some other civ declares war on you - no problem.

The leap of money was general in civ2 when switching from Rep. to Dem. In civ3 it has effect only for a well expanded and spread civ.

This switch can be crucial, when you run a race very tightly with other civs. - only if you prefer the peaceful solution.

	08-11-2001 16:08									#8
	Use Luxuries! Inflate your Upload Space

People complain about Democracy in wartime but in my current game (Regent, Huge, 8civs) I've been fighting for a long time & have no real problem with unhappiness. I used a great leader to rush Emancipation which reduces War Weariness but I think the biggest factor is that I have access to 5 - 6 luxuries that are providing 3 - 4 smily faces that make my people so goddam happy. Do any of you treat luxuries as a priority? I've been happy to trade tech & cash to make sure I have access to as many as possible & it seems to pay dividends.

	09-11-2001 22:36									#9
	Republic Isn't Bad Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I dunno, I rush to Republic as quickly as possibly in the tech tree and switch as soon as it's available.
I find that you do take a major gold income hit initially.
However, I jack up the Luxury rate so high that every one of my cities is celebrating "We Love The King Day" all day, every day.
I have no idea what this "celebration" actually impacts in the game in terms of production or growth, but I've found that by following this strategy not only do I get lots of gold income, but enemy cities near me see how happy my people are and rebel against their leaders and pledge their allegience to me.

	09-11-2001 23:55									#10
	Democracy OK (but corruption is still huge) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Ive noticed on my game (Warlord, 8 Civs, Large Map, 30+ cities)
That even after i switched from Monarchy to Democracy, in my distant cities even with courthouses, and other city improvements (and this is a Size 12 city) i have only 2 production (out of a possible 10) and my Commerce is terrible as well. I did notice that in my cities on my mainland, close to my palace and forbidden palace that thier commerce rates seemed to improve, but that could just be a figment of my imagination..

	10-11-2001 02:36									#11
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WLTKD reduces corruptions(I'm sure of that, so the gold increase and production increase are because of this), and culture/assimilation would be faster, but I'm not sure at all.

	10-11-2001 05:00									#12
	The Democratic art of war Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'm playing in Warlord mode and am about to enter the modern age. I've got tanks and am rolling over my neighbors. I've been fighting for about 15 turns now with no significant problems with unhappiness or disorder (though I do have the Suffrage wonder which helps and I also put police stations in all cities). Running luxury at 20%.

I've got many cities that can crank out tanks in 2 or 3 turns. I polished off the French and have one Aztec city until they're toast as well. The Iroquoi are next, though they have an alliance with the Germans which should make that fun.

As with my previous experience with Civ's, put as much effort into tech as you can until you gain a significant superiority in weapon tech. Then, hasta la vista, baby...

	11-11-2001 00:51									#13
	Komrads , the best government is indoubtly da communism Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

So , maybe u'll get som ethical problems to kill dozen of people for contruct things , but if u're not an criminal , u still may draft a huge army when u need it , whatever communism is the best way to keep people happy .

	11-11-2001 02:15									#14
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What is WLTKD?

	11-11-2001 03:14									#15
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WLTKD is "We Love The King Day". This happens when you have no unhappy citizens, and more happy than content.

While the city is "Celebrating" you get a boost in production.
THe manual explains indetail.

	11-11-2001 05:53									#16
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I had the same problem as Monoriu, except I didn't declare war, war was declared on me.
A couple turns into the war, I lost all of my happy citizens. My about 6 luxuries have no affect. It takes 7 entertainers to make one content citizen happy. My problem now isn't that I have too many unhappy citizens-its that its almost impossible to make a content citizen happy.
Firaxis should definetly fix this in the patch. In the meantime, I'll be communist.

	11-11-2001 05:56									#17
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actually, for wltkd, the manual is worthless. IN civ2 the manual actually told you the specific effects. in civ3 the manual just tells you it increase production and reduces corruption, but we don't know what the exact effects are and that annoys the hell out of me.

	12-11-2001 20:28									#18
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I had a republic and was doing just fine except for the corruption. I was even able to wage war very effectively although war weariness did rear its ugly head whenever I lost a city (I violently traded a few times).

Switching to democracy has NOT appeared to improve money, produciton or trade, so I don't understand where the 150% is. Also, corruption is still RAMPANT not minimal.

BTW, someone made a civ2 comment. By far, IMHO, I think the best govt was democracy. I used to like communism as well for the espionage bonus and 2x suppression, but trust me. Once you cities are generating enough income you can set you luxury rates to 20% and have the happiest country, the most scientifically advanced and the richest. If managed properly, at least in Civ2, Democracy was by far the best overall govt (and I waged plenty of war, just build police stations where you needed them).

	12-11-2001 21:02									#19
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Raleigh,

Democracy's +50% applies to your Workers. The little guys with the shovels.

-Sev

	13-11-2001 00:11									#20
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If you have any army at all, communism is still the way to go. In my games, up to emp, i makes more money and have a better science rate in comm, because it costs too damn much to have any kind of an army.

	13-11-2001 01:42									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Democracy is best used in an extremist mode. On Regent, I can set my Luxury rating to 20% and then put my Science slider either at 10% or 70-90% when running democracy.

When the slider is at 10%, My turns to discovery are usually around 30 turns, but I am usually raking in anywhere from 150-600 gold per turn in profit. When the slider is in the upper end, I can get discoveries in 3-6 turns.

You can multiply the effect by only researching discoveries that are a) peaceful and b) do not let you build wonders. For the others, buy them from other civs. You may have to pay 2500 gold for Replacable Parts, but if you are pulling in 400 gold in profit every turn, you can amass the required funds very quickly.