10-11-2001 06:02									#1
	ALERT: Don't pay more for science than you have to! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If you haven't yet noticed it, there are both min. and max. turns for science improvement. It will never take you longer than 32 turns to learn a new tech if you have at least 1 science generated... and no matter how much science you generate you can't get a tech faster than 4 turns.

I'm still undecided how much I like/dislike this feature, but it's getting annoying always checking my science % to make sure I'm not overspending. Also, at the game start I usually set my science to the absoulte min. to generate gold... then I simply pay other civs for their tech!

I think the idea was good, to lessen the possible gap in tech between civs... but I think it would have been better handled using a bell-curve for tech costs instead of this min/max scheme.

	10-11-2001 06:07									#2
	Remove this text

I don't know if there is a min, but it is certainly not 4 turns. I have been able to discover a tech every 3 turns, and there might be people here who are down to a tech every 2 turns.

	10-11-2001 06:16									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

That's interesting... I've never been able to research in less than 4 turns.... And it isn't that I don't have enough science, I set my science to 40% and it takes 4 turns.... set it to 90% and still 4 turns.

What size map are you using? Is it smaller than standard?

	10-11-2001 06:27									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Knasboll I don't know if there is a min, but it is certainly not 4 turns. I have been able to discover a tech every 3 turns, and there might be people here who are down to a tech every 2 turns.

ME

	10-11-2001 07:43									#5
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And me too.

	10-11-2001 08:17									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I got 3 when I went to 60%, but I have a huge empire as well. And every wonder, including a nice city with the little platitpusses outside it, nice gold everywhere, Copernicus, and Newton. Like 200 science a turn. Very funny.

But max is 32 turns I believe. I've never seen it more than that.

	11-11-2001 00:34									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeah, something weird is going on with the science. I always keep a sharp eye on whether I am over %. This was sometimes a problem with Civ 2, but it is a large one here I think.

	11-11-2001 00:39									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Maybe you people can help me. What's a good % to set the science rate at for each age in your experience?

	11-11-2001 02:06									#9
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Well, it just gets stranger then.... maybe the min. # is based on map size or your tech lead (or lack there of). For me, I've never been able to get tech in less than 4 turns (at 10% science, bump it to 100% and still 4 turns!).

As for the best "rate", I suggest that if the number of turns are in the high 20's... you lower your rate so you get tech in 32 turns and stockpile gold... if it's 4 turns or less, I suggest you play with the slider to make sure you pay the least amount for the quickest time. It just requires a bit of micromanagment.

	11-11-2001 02:10									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The tech rate should be the percentage multiplied by the total amount of commerce, no? So whatever your percentage is, it's that percentage of your total number of trade arrows in your empire, plus other sources of income like other civs. You might lose lightbulbs in rounding, (I always lower it to the minimum required to discover a tech when it gets down to 1 turn) but otherwise I've had no troubles.

	11-11-2001 02:33									#11
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Tech rates advance quicker on smaller maps, opening up your editor will show you this. Thus getting 2 turns on a Tiny map is much easier than getting 2 turns on a Huge map.

Edited: Then again, people will have far more cities in Huge maps then they will in Tiny maps. So it's a matter of tech rate & land available (60% water on Huge maps vs. 80%water on Tiny maps) resulting in how fast techs advance.

Last edited by Pyrodrew on 11-11-2001 at 03:05

	11-11-2001 02:56									#12
	Put an end to popups!

One thing I like about it is that it provides a micromanagement ability for those of us with melancholy temperaments. Fiddling with the science percentage can net a lot of gold while discovering a tech in the shortest possible time.

	11-11-2001 03:33									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I must admit, I almost always focus on entertainment, and since I never play on tiny maps(I need my leg room, and only Huge maps can give it to me). Science for me is a means to an end. I try only to get the next most powerful unit, so that I can crank it out, take some foreign cities, then lather, rinse, repeat.

But as for lowest I have seen it, I think that I was able to get it to 60% before unhappiness caused me to drop it down to 40%. And at 60, I was getting 4-6 turns for next tech. Those who have gotten it under 4, what settings were you using? As it is something I really want to do, be so far ahead of the nearest ival that they still use pikers when I have tanks Yeah, like that'll happen.