11-11-2001 05:38									#31
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Make the ai feel good about you by giving them anywhere from 1-5 gold every 4-5 turns as a token of goodwill, i think that has helped me in getting fair shakes from the ai when i trade w/them

I'm not sure if giving 3 gold every 5 turns does work (only 12 gold every 20 turns?), but it shouldn't. If China gives England 3 gold for no reason I see no reason they should be impressed... it's only 3 gold. Now if it was a constant tribute, say 3 gold per turn, than that total 60 (after 20 turns) would not only be worth more, but result in a provided income that they would want you to keep doing.

quote: it seems that once i declare war on one civ for whatever reason...some how all the civs side w/him,,,,,and im all of a sudden fighting against 2-3 civs!!!!! I think this is one thing that needs to worked on dealing w/ai diplomacy and war

I disagree, it shows the AI is smart! You declare war on 1 of them & they will talk to their trading partner buddy to go against you AND they probably bribe other civs to go against you as well. In the game I'm in now the Japanese declared war on me... so I talked to the Zulus (a warlike culture buddy of mine) & got them to help... I then also bribed the Iroquois to help. The Zulus then got the Babylonians to help them & the Babylonians got the Persians to help them. Needless to say the Japanese were ripped to shreds. The AI Japanese in my case made the same mistake you did... you didn't find out who your friends were. And if you let the AI talk to Mr.Neutral before you do... he could sway him to his side 1st.

	11-11-2001 05:51									#32
	Increase Your PM Length

this thread has several interesting issues, but i'm not going to discuss them here. To be honest, it's very refreshing to see A) a game where substantial changes and improvements will happen in patches, as users request and B) a game where the developers LISTEN to the fans. It's a shame that some people will always be unhappy...

All I have to say is two-thumbs up to Soren ... he really doesn't deserve this.

-- adaMada

	11-11-2001 06:40									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Pyrodrew, good points and well taken, however...i should have explained more...i dont think the 1-5 gold every few turns is the big thing here...i think its the action more than the actual item im giving them......its the idea of "token of goodwill" as the heading states in the diplomacy screen that the ai picks up on and remembers.......not that im giving them a few gold every couple turns......
And on my last point....about the ai civs "teaming up" on players in wars..etc....i retract that statment and agree w/you.....i dont think its a problem...that needs to be somewhat corrected...as soon as i posted awhile ago..i started my save game back......the egyptians were setting up a city next to me...didnt think nothing of it..until....i discover gunpowder.....i thought yes........musketmen etc a new age in my military......i was only one at time i think that had that discover....ok next..i start looking for saltpeter.....guess what.....none around me!!!!!!!!!!!!----thru diplomatic intrigues etc.. i find out the only other nation who had gunpowerder discovered was...germany...becasue in diplomatic negotiastions w/them i discover they have etc resources of saltpeter...i trade one for one..iron to them i had in abundance..........however..that little import of saltpeter was not going to do....i decieded to declare war on egyptians since a)this was only city they had in this part of the world and b) when i got to studying the map in greater detail that was the only source on my side of the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAR WAS DECLARED
now for the reason i agree w/you know.....when i declared war i hestitated because i figured well, this will be my end all of the civs or alot of them anyway would gang up on me......after a few turns of war....2 did...but...this time...thru diplomacy i got the 2nd most influential civ to join my sides...well once that happend some of the small civs on our side of the world...thought...hey i better join this coalition or be left out in the called...the next couple turns reminded me of my history classes in college....of studiying the "powder keg" that erupted in WWI because of all the under the table agreements etc that all the european countries had during that time which,, like in my game, once a couple of the big civs took their gloves off....the rest of the wourld had to follow.........now....WWI is being fought in my game.....played all the way upto around 1500 ad no wars and now......because of one nations desire and need of saltpeter.....WWI has erupted in the world!!!

GenTomGun....sorry about long post...got thinking about that game and whay happened and just had to share it.

	11-11-2001 06:57									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

a few coins of gold every now and then does help, but marginally. You're better off doing a per turn tribute.

for some real added positive diplomatic effect, give away some conquered cities (after all the other civs are flat broke from buying them from you of course!)

	11-11-2001 10:58									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

No actually, the title of the thread was strategic. Look at how quickly it got attention. And why would it be offensive? The title only expresses an emotion.

But anyway, someone mentioned they are amazed you can give feedback to the game makers and they respond. Why are you amazed? You are the consumer, you buy the game, so why would they disregard your opinions? On the contrary, I'd be amazed if they didn't care what we thought.

And back to the point, contrary to what some of you are saying, if the AI has any regard to culture/military then it's only going to give you a fair trade if you're weaker. Most games I play I am pretty far ahead of the other civs in culture and military power, or at least equal. In all these games, the AI trade is never even close to fair for you. Not only must you fork over a lop-sided amount, but they cancel it ASAP to demand even more, which gets really annoying and tiresome. I just played a game now where I confined myself to 3 cities and played lazily to be the weakest civ, and diplomacy is now on the other end of the spectrum. Now the AI is willing to give me everything he owns for a world map! But then the next turn they'll make a threat for something. It's inconsistent.

	12-11-2001 18:05									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis Don't worry, no offense taken...

Very bad form! You should never have responded to such a thread, even as innocuously as that.

The author is clearly seeking attention in a disturbingly negative way. All these responses, but especially yours, encourage him and every other loud-mouth whiner out there to be as offensive as possible.

It's even more irritating because his complaint is so lame. There are problems a-plenty with the game, but his complaints wouldn't even appear on most people's list (actually that whole area is among the many strengths of the game, IMHO, not its weaknesses). His inability to have diplomatic successes really don't deserve the attention they're getting; it's a shame that his kindergarten techniques are so successful (as I contribute to the problem with this post....

	12-11-2001 18:14									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yeah, so why *did* you even post a reply?

All you did is give a nice bump . . .

now let it die in peace . . .

	12-11-2001 22:15									#38
	*sighs* Increase Your PM Length

I hate how accurate your foreign minister is in "guessing" whether or not they will accept...