11-11-2001 01:23									#1
	The more things change the more the AI stays the same Tired of ads?

I honestly thought I would have to make some sort of decision between playing Empire Earth and Civ3. Not anymore. The AI here is still the same arrogant bunch of warmongers as in the FIRST two. I didn't like having to decide between science and military in the first place, but I thought I had a decent military without going into debt or falling that far behind technically. Now Lincoln declares war on me out of the blue!!! I am on the Regent / Prince level as well! I never had HALF the problems here when I played civ2 on the KING level!!!

	11-11-2001 02:20									#2
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I've read some posts about the AI being too aggressive... if they could only be in the games I am always in. Very peaceful. Regent-Huge Map. There are hardly ever any wars (I see), unless I start them. I haven't seen any World Wars (or even Continent Wars - every civ on that continent at war) that others have claimed either. I never had an AI delcare war "out of the blue"... once the Japanese demanded I teach them 2 techs & declared war because I refused, but that's it. And after they did 3 other AIs (a 4th later) ganged up on the Japanese & tore them apart (and I had no mutual protection pacts). 40% of my entire border is right next to the Persians (whose 4-2-1 Immortals could devour me in seconds, but for centuries they haven't). The Persians demanded my territory map & 7 gold once which I didn't mind, but I've rejected other demands of theirs without backlash. I've also been absorbing some of their cities with my culture. Everytime I begin thinking the AI is too peaceful I see a post like yours.

	11-11-2001 02:37									#3
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The AI seems okay to me re: picking fights. I would expect it to behave such that the weaker you are, the more tempting kicking your a$$ is.

However, I do think it's stupid that the Americans would just unload on you for no reason - assuming it behaves like an American society. Which is why...

Governments and economies should be separate choices - i.e. Democratic Socialist, Monarchich Capitalist, Dictatorial Communism, etc... each one has it's plusses and minuses. That way, you could make it easier to design a government that is reluctant to declare war (democracy) but still have a productive warmongering society (despotic capitalist).

Alas...

Venger

	11-11-2001 02:45									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well, I have to say that I did prefer the Alpha Centuarii social model method, but that's not really accurate to the history of civilizations. As a rule, goverments are usually inherited or imitated. Think of all the democratic goverments in the world. Now think of all the democratic governments that don't run a capitalistic economy. I would like more choice goverment wise, and more compromise rather than "despotism is crap, peace goverments are republic then democracy, war goverments are monarchy then communism". Of course, in reality democracy is a more advanced form of the republic, communism is totally out there and monarchy is despotism with some devolution of power. Of course, a monarchy can have power so devolved from the despot as to be a democracy (i.e. the UK).

	11-11-2001 02:56									#5
	Tired of ads?

I had the Chinese declare war on me out of the blue in my last game. No reason at all. In fact, a few turns earlier I'd talked to Mao and they were "Polite" towards me.

There's only one reason I can think of that they attacked me: I had stopped their northern expansion by stretching my empire from coast to coast across their northern border (my southern border). They couldn't expand north anymore, and the Indians had them to the south (to what extent I don't know), so they targetted a small city I'd just built (no defensive units built yet), moved 3 spearman right next to it, and attacked at the beginning of the next round. They took over the city and razed it, thereby giving them a hole to expand thru.

Devious or BS? I don't know. Seemed like a good strategy now that I think more about it. I definitely didn't like getting stabbed in the back by what I thought was a good neighbor.

Now whenever I play I automatically assume that every civ is a potential enemy, and prepare for it.

Chris

	11-11-2001 03:25									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Venger ...Dictatorial Communism...

Huh? How would that work?

	11-11-2001 04:09									#7
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The "no room" theory woudn't work here, because they had PLENTY of room both east and west and to the south to expand. I think they're just being bullies. I now have 10 Amer units heading toward one of my cities, and am rushing reinforcements and city wall production....

	11-11-2001 04:12									#8
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I've read some posts about the AI being too aggressive... if they could only be in the games I am always in. Very peaceful. Regent-Huge Map.

What civs do you play against?

	11-11-2001 04:18									#9
	Re: The more things change the more the AI stays the same Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by justjake73 I am on the Regent / Prince level as well! I never had HALF the problems here when I played civ2 on the KING level!!!

PLAY ON WARLORD

i used to be playing civ2 deity, now i'm playing civ3 warlord

	11-11-2001 04:20									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by justjake73 The "no room" theory woudn't work here, because they had PLENTY of room both east and west and to the south to expand. I think they're just being bullies. I now have 10 Amer units heading toward one of my cities, and am rushing reinforcements and city wall production....

HINT: the AI's objective is(or at least it should be) to win not just to be around and trade maps with you
in civ games, this is usually done by killing the other civs

	11-11-2001 04:33									#11
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I've had both kinds of games -- aggressive neighbors and peaceful neighbors.

One game, the English and Greeks attacked out of the blue and wouldn't let up.

Curent game, as soon as the Zulus started building up their military next to me, I countered with my own buildup. They never attacked, and I'm now in the Industrial Age without ever being in a war.

Personally, I like the variety and think it adds to the replay value immensely that you really don't know how the neighbors will react. However, I do think that your nieghbors' available room to expand may have at least a little to do with the odds of keeping the peace.

	11-11-2001 05:29									#12
	War and Strategic Resouces Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

May shed some light on the issue: In a recent Regent / Large map, England and India suddenly signed a treaty against me. I was confused; they'd been polite to me moments before. As they're attacking, other civs start joinging the fray. Then I discover refining: 3 of the world's 6 Oil supplies are on my land. Two others are on Japan's land, with whom I had a mutual protection pact. The sixth was in the hands of the English, who were leading the attacks against me.

I will say its a bug in that none of the AIs came to me to ask for the Oil before attacking me: I'd have gladly given it to them...for a decent price.

While this may not explain your games, I thought it might be relevant.

Yaga

	11-11-2001 07:06									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The AIs couldn't ask you for the oil because you didn't discover Refining yet. Without Refining & a road to the oil you cannot trade it. They weren't going to wait & risk you overwhelming them with oil units later. And they didn't want to teach you refining + have you abuse them with heavy oil prices later. No bug from what I see.

Nevertheless, good point & it probably can explain many "out of the blue" attacks.