11-11-2001 06:54									#1
	Andrew's Whining Theory (it's a theory about whining, not a theory that whines) Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why do people take out such rage and frustration on Apolyton moderators? Why do otherwise mature people resort to whining and bemoaning a website they keep returning to? It's because the internet provides a wall of anonomity between us. None of us has ever met face to face. Really, all we know about each other is what we read in these forums. This semi-reality allows us, in the OT forums, to say the most hateful, irrational, offensive statements without fear of reprisal. To those who don't have confidence outside of the forums, they provide a place where they can cut lose, because it seems less real. There isn't that person in front of you staring you down...often the person is great distances away from you. That's what makes it so easy for Apolytoners to get mad at Markos and Dan when things go wrong. Some people don't seem to realize that the internet was built by humans, and that this site is run by humans, and both are subject to limits. And sometimes, people get so tied up that they don't seem to make that distinction between reality and virtual reality.

Then again, I'm really tired, so this may be a bunch of phooey.

	11-11-2001 08:11									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Andy, it's not always whining. Sometimes it's honest advice and feedback. There's been times when Mark and Dan said something was working (and it wasn't) and by persistent whining the problem got fixed. They will listen...but some times a little more whine is required.

The only thing I really whine about is site connectivity. To me this is reasonable. (At least we seem to have killed the tracert chimera.) I could care less about moderation, swear word censors, etc. etc.

	11-11-2001 22:03									#3
	Suffering from ads?

<I>There's been times when Mark and Dan said something was working (and it wasn't) and by persistent whining the problem got fixed. They will listen...but some times a little more whine is required.</I>

We cannot guarantee that absolutely every possible feature of every service that we offer here is going to be working 100% of the time. I realize that this is not your expectation or your argument here, GP, but what I am getting at is that we may not notice a problem arise for some hours until after it has happened based upon the time of day and length of time that we are able to spend on Apolyton in a given period. For example, when we go to sleep we may observe that something is in working order but when we get up there is a malfunction of some sorts.

It is not "persistent whining" that gets problem fixed; on the contrary, it is a combination of (our) availability, figuring out the problem and applying a resolution as quickly and efficiently as possible, waiting for assistance if need be (e.g. GS Tech.) and <U>constructive</U> criticism... whining is not in the equation.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

	12-11-2001 07:42									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

	13-11-2001 21:58									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

some people just have to whine, else they'd have to actually do something. others have to whine, else no one would pay them any attention. still others have to whine, just for loving to whine.

	22-11-2001 23:11									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I've noticed that many people seem to confuse constructive criticism with whining. For those of you who are some what vague on this difference please allow me to explain.
1. Constructive criticism is legitiment advice on how a person/product/service could be improved and/or expanded upon. Constructive criticism provides useful consumer feed back that will, in the long run, help the company/message board/what not better conform to the needs. wants, & desires of it's target market.
2. Whining serves little or no purpose. Often it takes the form of personal attacks or taunting. Almost invariably a whining post has nothing to do with the topic of the message board in which it is posted and whining is not meant to improve anything or to stimulate useful conversation. It doesn't offer any remidy for problems and instead simply resorts to disparaging people and/or products.

That said may I offer some advice? If you see someone posting a useless whine don't run up and post a note that says "You're nothing but a whiner!" because this will only feed the whining and bump the thread to the top of the list where trolls will find it and create a flame war.

	23-11-2001 23:31									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin That said may I offer some advice? If you see someone posting a useless whine don't run up and post a note that says "You're nothing but a whiner!" because this will only feed the whining and bump the thread to the top of the list where trolls will find it and create a flame war.

What are you, a killjoy?

Whiners MUST be attacked!

Hey Dan, how come you always answer GP?

He your DL or something?

	24-11-2001 11:05									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

<I>Hey Dan, how come you always answer GP?</I>

Someone has to keep him on his toes...

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Dan; Apolyton CS