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Venger
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Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Jan 1970
time: 23:16
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God I am SICK of seeing $hit like this. I'm still in my first game (can't help it, I kick ass on a big map and am rolling up the AI like a 5 cent whore). But I have seen piece after piece after piece of stuff like this that is clearly the result of shoving the game out the door and up our @$$...
I've noticed that the AI in trading just isn't very smart. Why won't it trade two luxuries for one? Why doesn't it realize a good deal from a bad deal? Why can it be extorted at one time and absolutely retardly indignant another? I can demand and get 15 gold a turn from a Civ with zero in the bank?
Control, control, you must learn control!
Venger
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squid
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I don't talk with crazy people. I do not blame her.
Yes, this is stupid.
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Peterk
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Montreal, Canada
Oct 2001
time: 05:16
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> God I am SICK of seeing $hit like this
Take it easy. They just didn't account for every stupid thing us users might try and do. The offer is pretty retarded to begin with so I'm not surprised that it fell through a hole in the code somehow. As long as the AI deals with "normal" trades ok, what's the big deal.
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Flash70
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quote:
Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Actually, most AIs already have the maximum number of 8 luxuries. Having more will not help them... |
Not always. In several games I played, the AI did not have many luxuries and accepting my trade offer would have benefited him at least as much it would benefit me.
But still he made absurd demands like asking for two techs, large sum of money and another luxury in return for a single luxury I requested !
This behavior really annoyed me. So eventually what I did was trading my luxuries for money, then spending the money to increase the entertainment.
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Adagio
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Haven't tried to make such a trade yet, but what bothers me more (when talking diplomacy) is the AI always want more than they want to give me.
How many times haven't I seen this: They want to talk to me, they propose the "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" deal, but the table says this: "They offer World map; They want World map AND one or two techs".
If I want to make a deal, let's say a map for a map, they just get annoyed  even if I have the most knowledge about the world. In some Firaxis chat short time ago (never remember names  ) it was mentioned the AI doesn't see who is AI and who is human, but I just can't make this fit right in, because the AI always want more than the other one, if that is so, the AI can never make a deal with an other AI, but I still see AI making deals...how can this be if they both want more than they will give 
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Venger
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Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Jan 1970
time: 23:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Grim Legacy
Seems your culture rating is in the picture too. Check the histograph score. I've noticed that keeping up with the enemies greatly facilitates trade.
Also: betrayal on your part makes them very wary, betrayal on their part makes them very humble.  |
As to power affecting trade, so far that's nonsense. I'm the most powerful nation on the map and the AI STILL doesn't accept fair trading. Want to trade a luxury? They want THREE in exchange at this point. Trade a tech? No, they want two techs AND gold. Apparently the AI routine that determines what a AI Civ needs simply takes what you offer and multiplies it...
Now, as to "betrayal" - that may make some sense. However, what constitutes betrayal? Bulding cities on my continent that I decide I cannot leave intact? Sorry, that's not betrayal. Betrayal should be breaking a treaty mutual advantage, not simply peace.
In Civ3, you get two options - war or peace. What if I don't want a stinking peace treaty with you but don't want war either? Doesn't seem possible. Again, still playing my LONG first game, so there may be something I am missing on this particular point.
However, the Aztecs, who have on many occassions demanded something or threatened war, and never had the nuts to do it, shouldn't get any "indignation points" when I finally open an old fashioned Can O Whoopas$ on him...
Venger
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Grim Legacy
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War Machine, Barbaric King, Relentless, Remorseless, Guiltless and Unclean!
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger
As to power affecting trade, so far that's nonsense. I'm the most powerful nation on the map and the AI STILL doesn't accept fair trading. Want to trade a luxury? They want THREE in exchange at this point. Trade a tech? No, they want two techs AND gold. Apparently the AI routine that determines what a AI Civ needs simply takes what you offer and multiplies it... |
"power"? I said culture. Read more carefully next time, eh. 
In fact, I think military/population/production power strikes negatively on the bargaining: you get too strong for the opponents taste, and they become reluctant to make you richer.
quote:
Now, as to "betrayal" - that may make some sense. However, what constitutes betrayal? Bulding cities on my continent that I decide I cannot leave intact? Sorry, that's not betrayal. Betrayal should be breaking a treaty mutual advantage, not simply peace.
In Civ3, you get two options - war or peace. What if I don't want a stinking peace treaty with you but don't want war either? Doesn't seem possible. Again, still playing my LONG first game, so there may be something I am missing on this particular point.
However, the Aztecs, who have on many occassions demanded something or threatened war, and never had the nuts to do it, shouldn't get any "indignation points" when I finally open an old fashioned Can O Whoopas$ on him... |
Ya ya, too bad for you. Betrayal is simply going to war or breaking an alliance or any of such pre-defined actions. Territorial harassment, threats and such do not fall into this category. Such is life in Civ. Instead of complaining about it, you could try to harness these means by yourself and know you're not losing any 'trust points'.
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Venger
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Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Jan 1970
time: 23:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Grim Legacy
"power"? I said culture. Read more carefully next time, eh.
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Same diff. I have the most culture too. Why would that encourage them to trade with me anyways? Trading should be done on the parties own best interest, not because they think your culture is cool. Either you need Dye and Horses, or you don't. Either the deal if fair, or it isn't. That's that. [/quote]
quote:
In fact, I think military/population/production power strikes negatively on the bargaining: you get too strong for the opponents taste, and they become reluctant to make you richer.
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Which makes SOME sense, but it's not a zero sum gain either. It's complete and utter stupidity is shown in the post at the top of the thread - 100 gold is rejected for 10. This is SIMPLY RIDICULOUS. No amount of "culture" or "you're too strong" makes 100 for 10 a bad deal. What the deal shows is that the trading algorithm needs major work - this is what we get for not playtesting the game...
quote:
Ya ya, too bad for you. Betrayal is simply going to war or breaking an alliance or any of such pre-defined actions. |
Breaking an alliance is not the same as going to war. That the game is designed to reflect that means the defect is in the game, not in the fact.
quote:
Territorial harassment, threats and such do not fall into this category. Such is life in Civ. |
Same as above. It should fall into the category. The failure to is a gameplay flaw.
quote:
Instead of complaining about it, you could try to harness these means by yourself and know you're not losing any 'trust points'. |
Not sure what you mean here...
Venger
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Aiya
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New York
Oct 2001
time: 00:16
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I was playing last night as japanese and my ally, persians, was at war against the babylonians. I was just making sure that my ally was happy with the way the war was going and asked to extend the war (not really needed). But I thought, what the heck.
To my surprise, when I asked them to sign a military alliance, they requested 1000+ gold per turn, 1500 gold lump, and 3 techs!!!! I was like WTF!
It didn't matter, they were still at war. But I got pissed, and revolked all my trades with my ally (saltpeter and rubber). Then proceeded to clean out the map. Stupid Ally, now you die with the rest for being so stupid!
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11-11-2001 18:09
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