11-11-2001 23:47									#1
	Problems with opponents and my borders Got spare money?

I don't t know if this has happened to anyone else. So here goes.
I started out in the middle of Africa. The Aftecs were to the south of me and I had succesfully blocked them in. Keeping them from colonizing or dropping cities anywhere else on Africa. As I start to head north to settle the rest of Africa. Here comes the Aztec settlers and workers walking across my territory. I wait for a few turns and see what they are doing. They are heading directly across my territory. Walking right by my cities, and trying to go North. I contact the Aztecs and tell them to get off my land. What's his name replies. "My units are in your land?, Oh well, that is what I am told, but I really don't care." He says something like that. Anyways, he agrees to pull his people out. The next turn, the settlers and workers continue north. I contact him again, and I get the same message. The next turn, he is still going north. What the heck am I supposed to do? The AI continues to make his trek across my land. He doesn't turn around, and the game, does not automatically remove his units from my borders. ??? Any info on this possible bug would be appreciated.

	12-11-2001 00:04									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Go to war with him. Hell, I'd do the same thing if I was playing you.

	12-11-2001 00:14									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

*raises hand*

Happens to me all the time. See my comment in this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=33443

Civs don't seem to care if they're in your territory or not (as long as the unit is non-military).

Zeb, war isn't always an option. Civ3 is supposed to encourage different playstyles, yet the ONLY way to keep another civ from running thru your territory is war? The Diplomacy option for this should operate this way: first warning of "get your units off my land" should be followed by an "Okay" if the Civ agrees to your demands. The civ can manually move the units out. The 2nd warning, the units are automatically removed from your territory, to their nearest city, in the same direction they came from.

This would sort of play to the idea that War occurs when Diplomacy breaks down.

Edit: What I meant to say to Zeb is that, OK, War IS always an option, but there should be better ways to go about it. There's a reason this demand is on the Diplomacy menu, yet it's useless if the Civs give into your demands but it accomplishes the same thing as if you'd never made the demand in the first place.

Chris

Last edited by Draco of GL on 12-11-2001 at 00:22

	12-11-2001 00:17									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Montezuma and a few other leaders WILL lie to you. His intention is to colonize beyond your borders and he really has no intention of recalling the settlers. Trust me. Cleopatra does the same thing. If they get close enough to the border out of your land and you tell him to get out the units will automagically jump to the spot outside of your territory they want to be on. You can either go to war or let him build his cities hoping you can out culture them. Personally, I'd go to war.

Look at your foreign advisors comments. Mine told me "Cleopatra is a known liar and a cheat...deal with her carefully" when we just agreed to a peace treaty.

D4

	12-11-2001 03:03									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You can also get 6 or eight horsemen and use them to constantly block the Settlers. I spent about two hours doing this because I couldn't afford a war with the Egyptians, lacking iron as I did.

Of course, once I secured a source of iron from the Germans, I upgraded to knights, attacked Egypts iron mine and that pretty much put a stop to the whole 'wandering through the desert' mentality of the Egyptians.

Cheers,

Dr. Charm

	13-11-2001 00:42									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I had the Zulus doing the same thing... I would use diplomacy and they would move their units off my territory... Always saying, "It is not our intention to be on your land." Or something similar. I do think the different civs have very different personalities. Have you noticed how the Aztecs fight? It's more guerilla style warfare, hit and run.

So with some civs diplomacy does work, and with others it doesn't.

Zeb

	13-11-2001 01:31									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Actually, I think that this is an undocumented "feature". The first time or two that you ask someone to get the heck out of your land, they will say "sure, will do". However, they don't do it that turn. You have to contact them in the next turn to ask again, to say "hey, I really mean it this time, ". About 1/2 the time, they withdraw immediately, the other 1/2 it happens on the 3rd turn (and every turn after that for a long while).

Btw, the AI gives you the same couple of "strikes" before kicking you out automatically. For example, the first time you bump into a civ and are in their borders, they ask you to leave, and even if you agree, your unit does not immediatly evacuate (you don't get the prompt)."

So, basically, keep yelling at them, and eventually they'll remove 'em (or they'll go to war)

Jbird

	13-11-2001 04:17									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think the real issue (as Draco of GL stated) is that the AI doesn't give a rat's behind whether s/he has a non-military unit in your terrority or not. I had an Egyptian Explorer in my territory for a good 20 turns, but yet I was never given the option of "Get out or declare war!" even after constantly asking Cleo to move it or lose it. Hrmph.

	13-11-2001 04:49									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I see this complaint quite a bit on these threads.

I also see "The AI asks for too much for resources and techs", as well as "The AI attacks me all the time if he's stronger or if he has resources I don't".

I think if you just operate under the assumption that the AI will act in its own interest, the diplomacy will make much more sense.

If you have an AI civ boxed in, so that he can't expand any more without walking through your territory - expect him to walk through your territory. What's he supposed to do? Just die? Give up? Surrender? Also expect him to try to lie to you to try to get across your territory. Why shouldn't he? Wouldn't you?

If you're stronger than a neighorboing civ, what do you do? You exterminate them, right? Why shouldn't the AI do that to you?

Do you give your techs away for nothing? The proper price for an item is "whatever you can get". If the AI screws with you a little when he doesn't want to give you a tech, so what? Maybe you'll be dumb and say yes. That's what I'd figure, anyway, in his place.