12-11-2001 05:13									#1
	C'mone WHAT'S IT LIKE????? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I read the last big thread hoping for some insight into this game but just spent an age reading about "To Crash or not to Crash"

I'm in the UK and it isn't available yet .. although only a couple of weeks away .. if that!!

I'd love to hear what people think who have played it though. What excellent features it has, how's the AI, how's the diplomacy? How is it so much better than Civ 2 what advantages does it have over CTP & CTP 2.

I need to hear the orgasmic atmosphere and wonderful improvements .. I mean there are some right?

The thing I loved about Alpha Centurai & Alien Crossfire was the great AI. It used to drive me mad the lack of diplomacy in Civ 2 .. well you may have allies but for how long? I though AC's diplomacy was excellent!! Not perfect but a huge improvement. anyway if anyone has anystories I'd love to hear them!

	12-11-2001 06:50									#2
	Support Apolyton

My impressions so far in a nutshell:

-The AI seems way better than in any other Civgame before. Regent level -former Prince- is about like CivII Emperor, expect to play 2 levels below what you are used to.
-Overall, I find CivIII very enjoyable. Lots of little improvements that add up.
-Lots of little annoyances that add up, too. They should have tested the game for 2 more months and eliminated the bugs.

	12-11-2001 07:21									#3
	good. nothing more. Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The game is good.

Graphics are good, gameplay and interface is well done, not annoying and there's a lot of good hotkeys for the units. Some concept are totally new, like culture (it determines the border range that sourround cities), some new units like workers (they build roads and farms), some are re-built (bombers are assigned with missions, cannons just can bombard like CTP) and there's no caravan (you exchange goods by diplomatic agreements). Theres also goods to trade : luxuries make your population happy, Strategic Resources are needed to build weapons and some improvements.
There's also 2 types of wonders... small wonders can be built by each civs to improve your country, and great ones which can be built once per games.
The AI is well though, intelligent, and not totally nut.

Some points are REALLY annoying me... There's no scenario, nor scenario editor. Just a map editor. That's really a pace behind between Civ2 and Civ3.
The corruption is crazy, even if you're a democracy with courthouses everywhere and a Forbidden palace built in a far away place. Corruption is the cancer that make a city of 18 surrounded by mines only producing one shield and one gold.
There's still some bugs... Game is not adapted to play with 16 civs (just the diplomatic window gives us headache). The game is also very slow with that number of civs (2minutes between turns for a PIII450Mhz with 256Mo under Win98).

have fun

	15-11-2001 04:17									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Thanks for that!! Strange I read the blurb on the back of the box (it's out here on Friday) and I'm sure it said make your own Scenario's. Well that sucks i've been looking through the forum and was rather surprised at the number of complaints!! Hope there's a patch out soon!!

	15-11-2001 05:00									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm looking forward to getting it. A lot of people are complaining, but a lot of people really seem to like it too. My expectations now aren't as high as they were, and I think I'll probably like it more as a result.

	15-11-2001 05:06									#6
	My Two Cents... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Let me start first with the bad, to get it out of the way:

- corruption, like mathgoulet said, is insane. Soren Johnson was being delibrately vague about the patch in his Apolyton chat, if you weren't there or didn't read the transcript, but he did say that corruption was being looked at. I hope they tone it down substantially. I've had a city (on Chieftan, with a courthouse) produce 7 shields, and lose 6 of them per turn to corruption. Ouch.
- trespassing: an annoying AI issue. They just LOVE to try to waltze settlers through your territory; it takes 2-3 attempts to tell them to leave to finally boot them out -- and five turns later they're back again!
- I have the nVidia/WinXP driver problem that's been mentioned before, something which annoys me, but since it's a system problem and not a game bug, I can't and won't blame Firaxis for it. So long as someone -- I don't care if it's Firaxis or nVidia -- fixes it soon.
- no multiplayer. I'm flogging a dead horse, here -- there are already thousands of posts about multiplayer -- but I would like multiplayer. I'm not blaming Firaxis for cutting it, nor does it detract from the single player game, but I was hoping to enjoy annihilating my 'friends' over and over again.

Those are my biggest gripes, but let's be clear: they are MINOR. None of those issues have seriously affected my enjoyment of Civ3. I may, once in a while, get annoyed and yanked out of the flow of the game by those issues, but the next turn I get sucked right back in again.

The positives:

- culture: the biggest improvement, it allows for a kick-ass style of gameplay -- culture wars! Nothing is more fun than taking over other Civ's cities without losing a single soldier, or indeed, spending the resources to build a single soldier!!! All you have to do is make your people happier than their's, and watch the revolts begin.
- the new cultural victory ties in with another positive in my view -- the more peaceful nature of the game. War is harder. Trade and diplomacy are more important, and thanks to their more dynamic and diverse nature, less dull. I used to find peace in Civ2 a dull process, and would frequently start wars to liven the game. No longer. Negotiating trades, finding and developing resources, and engaging in culture wars all make 'peace' more exciting, and make the game realistic.
- there are also your standard improvements: graphics, tech changes, unit tweaking, etc. They all work well, IMHO, especially the small wonders.
- most importantly, it's still ADDICTIVE AS HELL!!! I haven't been able to play it as much as I'd like (grr... classes... grumble... work... gripe...) but when I do get to play, it's invariably been for 8-9 hours at a time. Just one more turn... until I finish that wonder... let my build up my navy... these are just some of the excuses I've used so far to relegate something called 'sleep' to the bottom of the pile of priorities.

That was a little more than two cents worth, wasn't it? Oh well... let me summarize, then, in something really worth two cents: GET IT.

	15-11-2001 06:13									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Its funny, I havent had much problems with corruption myself. I play on Warlord (keep getting whooped on Regent), so maybe thats why, but I only have bad corruption problems when I capture an enemy city/settle a city across the map for resource reasons. Otherwise I raze enemy cities (unless they got a great wonder!).

I like the corruption the way it is, as it forces you to build your empire intelligently (ie. proper placement of palace/forbidden palace) and you must strike a balance of the number of cities you own.

Besides the the 4 or 5 cities that do produce 1 shield a turn I simply buy all needed improvements with cash generated from my core empire.

Corruption isnt so bad that the middle of your empire shouldnt be producing enough for your whole empire.

	15-11-2001 07:14									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

To quote a reliable source:

"I'll say it. This game is as close to perfect as any I've picked up in the last 5 years or so. Yes, with bugs, warts and all, this game shines. It is just so damn fun to play, and knowing that it will only get better is quite a thrill. Happy, happy, happy, joy, joy, joy. [dances around his office and throws daisies around]

I've probably ruined any chance of people, here, taking me seriously, but do I care? Not really. I've got Civ 3 and it is as good a gaming experiense as most aficionados can hope for. Oh sweet life, grant me plenty hours to sleeplessly waste in Civ 3."

and

"It seems to me that, in the case of Civ3, overall balance was the the driving force behind the game design and the achievement of that meant taking away the powerful toys (nukes) and toning down the disparity between units (techno debate). It also introduced corruption, culture and resources. And that is what makes the game so damn compelling for me. You are forced to be on your toes from A-Z, there is no easy victory. The game has been remarkably balanced throughout my five games on regent."

Which in my opinion makes it superior to Civ2 and SMAC, both of which suffered from a, often, boring 'mopup' endgame.

Zap

	15-11-2001 07:38									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

By all means, buy the game. If you are a civ veteran, you will definately have some gripes, but I think that's normal really with sequels where you were a huge fan of the original...

	16-11-2001 03:16									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Interesting replies thanks. (Mean't to reply last night but just changed some details to my profile and was banned from posting replies till confirmation email arrived)

I've been with Civ since its first release and have been an avid fan since although I wasn't overly impressed with Call to powers .. just weren't Meier!!! I will be buying it when it's payday even if there are bugs. I'm a big fan of Alpha Centurai too.