12-11-2001 07:17									#1
	Has anyone figured out a good strategy for researching techs? Put an end to popups!

It is getting rather annoying. No matter what I do, I seem to end up behind on technology. I've tried going straight for Monarchy, but by the time I get to that, the AI has already researched most of the ancient era. Hell, this last time, I tried REX (and, wouldn't you know it, was placed in the middle of plains, forest, and jungle), and when I met up with the Egyptians, I hadn't even hit Monarchy, and they were building Sun Tzu's!

I have tried setting my science to 100% early on, but that only gains me a couple of turns.

So far, the only way I've been able to get ahead is by cheating (giving the scout a large movement rate and alpine ability-then making sure non of my opponents were Expansionist), but I'd much rather do this honestly.

Anyone got any ideas?

Marc

	12-11-2001 08:01									#2
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1. Don't research in techs that are useless (e.g. free artistry, monarchy etc).

2. Trade techs. A lot. Sell older techs to backward AIs for tribute. Use the money to buy new techs from more advanced AI nations. Or just trade tech for tech, which usually works for medium advanced AI nations. Focus on one branch of the tech tree and buy techs of the other branch (e.g. in the industrial age I researched the medicine and steam power branch myself but bought nationalism, espionage and communism).

3. Micro-manage science rate. Research rate is capped at 32 turns and 4 turns. Don't spend money where its wasted.

4. Send out a lot of warriors early on in the game for huts. You don't need scouts for the job.

	12-11-2001 08:12									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think there is no limit on how short it takes to research a tech, certainly not capped at 4 turns. Some people have reported getting 3 turns or maybe 2.

	12-11-2001 08:39									#4
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Monarchy isn't useless...

	12-11-2001 08:57									#5
	Got spare money?

"I think there is no limit on how short it takes to research a tech, certainly not capped at 4 turns. Some people have reported getting 3 turns or maybe 2."



There certainly is a cap at 4 turns per tech. Not much more to say because its a fact.


"Monarchy isn't useless..."


Agreed, I was just giving examples. If you go for republic then don't research monarchy, or if you go for monarchy then don't research republic.

	14-11-2001 02:36									#6
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there is no 4 turn cap limit, 3 turns is possible.

	14-11-2001 02:13									#7
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Build lots of offensive units and force the AI at swordpoint (or gunpoint) to give his techs to you when he is down to his last city. Works every time.

You'd be amazed at how much they'll pay for peace when they are on the verge of extermination.

	14-11-2001 03:08									#8
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Here's the relevant portion of another thread where this discussion is being clarified:

quote: Yes, there is a 4 turn limit, and the other threads are wrong. The thing is that the limit is a "soft" limit, not a hard limit. What this means: Tech Cost = 1000 (example) Science Rate 100 = 10 turns Science Rate 200 = 5 turns Science Rate 250 = 4 turns Science Rate 500 = 4 turns Science Rate 700 = 4 turns Science Rate 900 = 3 turns etc... I haven't had the ability to calculate when it finally lets you get to 3 (and some have even reported 2) turns, becuase I've never been able to do it. But I have been able to prove that more than doubling the science rate from the 4 turn rate still won't decrease the time to 3 turns.

Here's the link if you want to read more of the discussion.

I disagree with the trading advice posted above, here's something I posted earlier in This Thread.

quote: Here's a little tip to help you get the most out of trading your tech: Take advantage of the degradation of each tech's value over time. Advances are worth more when they are "cutting edge" than they are after some time passes, SOooooooo... Sell your "cutting edge" techs for money, not other techs. Find spots on the tech tree that you can ignore for a long time, and buy them for cash only when you finally need those techs to advance or to accomplish an objective (for example, when you finally have the production built up in a fake palace, _then_ buy the necessary tech and build the wonder you wanted). I have tested this, and if I trade two evenly valued techs when they are new, I can swap one-for-one. But if I sell my new tech for 400 gold, then 6 tech advances later I can go back and buy their tech for only 200 gold. Not to mention that I have a larger income at that point... The key is to identify those techs that aren't immediately useful (it's not too hard to do depending on what you want to prioritize).

	14-11-2001 03:59									#9
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Another little thing... Since your first 1 or 2 techs will almost always take 32 turns, set your science initially to the lowest possible and always research a more advanced tech first.

eg. If you start with alphabet, research writing first so you can make use of the 32 turn limit

	14-11-2001 04:56									#10
	Support Apolyton

-yep its possible to go to 3 turns, but the effort required is so great that is simply not worth it.

-I disagree with trading away cutting edge techs. I play on Monarch level and I usually maintain a 3 tech lead over the strongest AI. I don't feel like giving the advantage away. Besides, the AI is stupid and will pay huge sums for older techs that are useless (e.g. paying 30 gold per turn for music theory, free artistry when the relevant wonders have already been built). By selling older techs to other civs I made 20k+ in my current game, so I don't see the need to get more money by giving away my tech lead.

-for buying techs, I usually wait until at least 3-4 civs have it. Then I'll trade away something that is already available for the 2nd strongest civ to maybe the 4th or 5th strongest civ to buy what I want. Say if I found out that the second strongest civ already has industrialization, I'll sell industrialization to the 4th strongest civ for nationalism. That way I don't give away any real secrets.

	14-11-2001 05:13									#11
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I'm with you on not trading away important cutting edge techs. I do this during the ancient era when I feel that not any of the techs are really important enough to keep to myself (and besides, in the ancient era my cutting edge techs are usually already a little behind the best AI, just like the orignial poster). Later on, however, things change and it's worth protecting certain techs. Once you have the lead and a big enough economy to keep it, all bets are off...

I still like to trade tech for money or other things, and then buy equivalent tech later in time once they've been devalued and my economy is stronger. I don't like to trade tech-for-tech generally.

	14-11-2001 05:43									#12
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David:

- I agree about the ancient age. I trade away most techs in the ancient age as well, very few techs were worth protecting at that time.

-I usually sell techs to the 4th to 16th civs (I am usually the strongest). They usually don't have the stuff that the 3 strongest civs already have, and I know that the second and third civ will sell the techs if I don't do it first.

-I also sell the same tech to all the civs in one turn, so they can't resell it.

-tech for tech.... its because sometimes the computer charge too much. My treasury is about 15k now and even if I pay 1k for an old tech they won't sell it to me. Maybe the AI also takes into account the size of my treasury when negotiating the deal? Not sure. I don't like giving more than 1k for a tech so I trade old techs away to the weaker civs for the techs that I don't have.

	14-11-2001 06:03									#13
	stradegy that works under higher diff. Support Apolyton

Above stradegies won't work if you choose diff. emperor or deity. I have finished the emperor diff. for hugh map, 16 nations as China. The only effective way to keep tech advance is fight with strong Civ and trade with weak Civ. Never exterminate any nation cause they will be used for trading as soon as they become weak.

It's extremely difficult though. Luckily, I got two leaders before any nation can built the pyramid and I used one learder built the pyramid to speed my city's grow and another one to build an army. As soon as I have an army, I can swipped the strongest enemy more easily.

My impression is "Military" is more important than "Expantionist" and "The pyramid " is the most important wonder.

	14-11-2001 06:18									#14
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quote: Above stradegies won't work if you choose diff. emperor or deity

OK, I'm trying not to be snippy, but how do you come to this conclusion? Are you aware that I play Monarch (there is no emperor level in civIII) exclusively right now? Are you aware that others on the boards that beat Deity have supported and helped to refine these strategies? Have you ever actually tried any of them?

quote: The only effective way to keep tech advance is fight with strong Civ and trade with weak Civ.

How do you suppose one might incorporate the above strategies into the "trade with the weak Civ" portion of your "only effective way"? Hmmmm. Maybe that's exactly what we've been talking about all this time: What's the best way to trade tech.

I'd like to take your arguments seriously, especially since some of them are almost realistic, but it's just so difficult when they're delivered in such a horribly insulting and ignorant way.

	14-11-2001 06:23									#15
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Sorry for any offensive wording but I mean nothing but express some points of view. I apologize!

However, there is emperor level in CIV 3 . I don't understand why you said it does not existed.

	14-11-2001 06:36									#16
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For what it's worth, I agree that a quick military rush is almost necessary at Deity in order to keep up with the AI production and science bonuses.

The more I think about it, the more I think I might have goofed about the Emperor thing. I was thinking that Emperor level (just below Deity) in civII was renamed Monarch in civIII. That's probably wrong, though. I suppose that means I play on Emperor, not Monarch...

I'm sorry myself for any screw up, just goes to show why people shouldn't jump down other's throats: you might make a mistake yourself!