13-11-2001 00:08									#1
	The Diplomatic `Victory' Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Ok, I really do love this game. Been staying up far too late, far too often playing it.

However, (there's always a however, isn't there?) there are a couple little things that bug me. The `diplomatic' victory is one of them. It seems very abrupt, arbitrary, and underdeveloped. There's no way to guess who will vote for who, and it's all over in a few seconds. Two civs I'd been friends with the whole game who were gracious to me voted for the other fellow (who was currently on a conquest spree). I reloaded and gave them each a cheep little city and I won.

So how do we `fix' it? These ideas may be too ambitious for a patch, but I thought I'd throw them out there and see what y'all thought as well. First off, I'd like a bit more `eye candy'. A text box which asks you who you want to vote for and tells you who won is a bit of a let-down. I'd like to see a little screen, much like the victory screens, pop up with each of the leaders. Then they'd each vote with those funny little word bubbles and say who they wanted as leader and `why'. Then of course, if the bad guys won, you'd have the choice of keeping on playing and still trying to launch your spaceship or conquer the world or whatever.

Also, I think it might work better more like the SMAC diplo-victory. Building the UN gives you a spy in all civilizations and some kind of `trade-bonus' to boot. Then every ten or fifteen turns or so an election is held for `Secretary-General' (your diplomatic advisor would have this as one of his messages "Six turns until the UN elections, sir. We should kiss up to other civilizations").

A new diplomatic option would be offered in negotiations, `UN Vote'. You'd be able to ask another Civ to vote for you in exchange for stuff (or threats). Doing this would also tell you if they were giving their vote to someone else. These Civs could also abstain from voting. In fact, they usely would abstain unless one side or another convinced them to elect them (thus the `diplomacy' part of the `diplomatic' victory.)

As it is, I've disabled the diplomatic victory, as it's not `fun'. "Sir! Luxumbourg has built the U.N.! We've suffered a humiliating loss!" GAME OVER.

Anyhow, back to building the mighty empire of Persia...

Joe

	13-11-2001 00:29									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yes, I've been thinkin removing the diplomatic victory. It just has this "thrown in" -feeling, it's not thought to end.

	13-11-2001 03:12									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I agree that SMAC's diplo victory was much better designed. It felt like a strategic part of the game instead of the winner take all it is in CIV III. At least in SMAC, when you tried this, if you failed (didn't have 3/4 of the vote) you could keep playing and try again. However in CIV III it is all over as soon as you decide to have a vote. Whoever gets the most votes wins, and the game is over. It seemed like in SMAC that it was an ongoing process, trying to get the number of votes you needed, and trying every now and then, failing, then building support again. Seemed like a valid and interesting process. However now it is all over in one turn and you either win or lose. Not much fun, and very anticlimatic.